Science Talk

Dan Clore · Guest

News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo

http://tinyurl.com/5umrom
ZACF interviews two libertarian activists from Zimbabwe
Sunday, July 06 2008 @ 06:35 PM CDT
Contributed by: Collin Sick
Anarchist Movement

A member of the ZACF poses the same set of questions to two activists
from Zimbabwe. The first interviewee, Biko Mutsaurwa, is an
anarcho-communist from the Uhuru Network and facilitator for the Toyi
Toyi Artz Kollektive in Harare. The second interviewee is Comrade Fatso,
AKA Samm Farai Monro, a cultural activist and artistic facilitator for
Magamba! The Cultural Activist Network. The interviews were conducted in
Johannesburg on 21st of June, 2008 -- the day before MDC leader Morgan
Tsvangirai announced his decision to not participate in the June 27
presidential election run-off.

Interview with Biko Mutsaurwa, anarcho-communist from the Uhuru Network
and facilitator for the Toyi Toyi Artz Kollektive. Conducted in
Johannesburg on 21st June 2008 by the ZACF.

ZACF: Have you heard about the regime's alleged 3-stage election scheme
("electoral cleansing", falsify the vote, declare a state of emergency)?

Biko: About the regimes intentions to outrightly rig the Zimbabwe
electoral outcome I could say that i am convinced merely from watching
the regimes reactions to the 29th March elections results that Mugabe
has refused to accept that he was defeated in that election. The state
media has continued to propagate the myths that there was no election
winner. So I’m clear that their intention was to rig the election. With
regards to how the regime is actually intent on cleansing after the
elections, decimating the middle lay of activists within the Movement
for Democratic Change I could say that I have second hand information,
actually I got it from my mother who was forced-marched to a ZANU PF
rally this Wednesday, 18th June 2008 where war veterans from the
Zimbabwe Liberation War Veterans Association addressed that rally and
they came to say that they were not there to campaign but they were
there to inform the people that ZANU PF was not going to accept the
electoral victory of MDC and also that they were going to come back to
beat up the residents of Chitungwiza, where I stay with my family,
primarily because Chitungwiza has been traditionally voting for the MDC.

ZACF: Can you tell us something about conditions on the ground in
Zimbabwe, the extent of repression etc.. We'd like to hear about
something else other than the repeated arrests of Tsvangirai & other MDC
big-shots.

Biko: The arrests of senior MDC leaders comes in the wake of ZANU PF’s
realisation that this time around the MDC leadership is prepared to call
upon the masses of Zimbabwe to rise up and defend their vote using
peoples power.The specific incident that gave rise to this awakening in
terms of ZANU PF’s realisation was Tendai Biti’s announcement of the
parallel voter tabulation result on 30th March. The arrests are merely a
signal that ZANU PF is going to incapacitate the higher MDC leadership
and later decimate the middle-layer MDC leadership that is community
organisers so that there is no organised resistance in the wake of ZANU
PF’s rigging of elections but also, which is much widespread, there have
been very serious instances of ZANU PF militia in the rural areas
mutilating the bodies of murdered MDC activists. A case in point is a
very close friend of mine, Comrade Tonderai Ndira, who was a community
organiser but also - in the wake of what is happening - was agitating
for the armed self-defence of the oppressed communities particularly in
the rural areas. He was murdered in one of the rural areas by the
Central Intelligence Organisation in the remote rural district. His
brother could only recognise him by a wrist band that he wore. That is
the extent to which ZANU PF is prepared to deal with ordinary people.
There are so many numerous names of people that have been murdered by
ZANU PF.

ZACF: And the economy: hyperinflation, availability of food & other
basic necessities, unemployment are common knowledge. Perhaps you have
some comments on the origin of the economic crisis?

Biko: The ZANU PF regime came into power masquerading as a socialist
party. It had as part of its ideological tradition the Stalinist
conception of revolution. By 1991 even workers rose up against the ZANU
PF dictatorship but by then it had consolidated its power and by 1990
ZANU PF had ceased to event act as a pseudo-leftist party and it
outrightly embraced the right wing policies of the Bretton Woods
institutions, the IMF and the World Bank, by adopting the economic
Structural Adjustment Programmes.The revolution that is currently
underway in Zimbabwe is a revolution that has been sparked by the
peoples reaction to the adverse effects brought about by the economic
Structural Adjustment Programmes of the 1990s. By 1999 we see the
formation of the MDC, and the rest is history.

ZACF: What is the role of the MDC? Have they handled things well or
badly? Again, historical comments on how they've blundered in the past
might be helpful.

Biko: The MDC emerged in 1999 from the initiatives of the Zimbabwe
Congress of Trade Unions as a workers party, but by the year 2001 it had
been hijacked by middle class intellectuals and capitalists and
therefore became a cocktail of ideologies. There have been a big number
of mistakes that have been committed by the MDC. The MDC has not aligned
itself towards the working people in terms of its economic policies. The
MDC continues to look outwards towards foreign direct investment from
imperialists nations and mutli-national corporations as the way forward
for rebuilding the decimated ZImbabwean economy. But in terms of
strategy and tactics I believe that this time the MDC has learnt from
its mistakes of not agitating for peoples power, but what remains a very
serious weakness at this particular point is the inability to prepare
the masses for an uprising. Yes its good enough to have the leadership
calling for people to get into the streets, but its not good enough
because you need to have the people prepared through training, through
regular actions with regards to bread and butter struggles that people
are going through, because only through action can people attain
confidence in using action as means to liberate themselves, which is the
only way for ZImbabwe.

ZACF: Can you tell us a little about the current state of resistance &
prospects for the future; whether resistance is organised primarily or
only by MDC or whether there’s other resistance; the trade unions
movement, civics etc.?

Biko: The Zimbabwean pro-democracy movement has been infected by a
disease that we call the ‘commodification of resistance syndrome’. There
are a lot of NGOs getting a lot of money from imperialist nations but
they are not organising concretely where the masses of the working
people are. The Zimbabwe Congress of Trade Unions remains a militant
organisation but it has been weakened by the high rate of unemployment.
Our belief as the Uhuru Network is that the key focal point is
organising in communities where the majority of working people are, and
here we see the very significant role of the combined Harare residents
associations, but we feel that the hierarchical structure of most of
these organisations organising in the communities is an impediment to
the workers and poor people organising themselves in a manner that
actually embodies the new forms of organisation that we envision for a
new Zimbabwe.

ZACF: Have you read an article by Dale McKinley of the APF on the
strategy of resistance for Zimbabwe? And what were your thoughts?

Biko: I have read articles that comrade Dale wrote in response to a
discussion that had been initiated by comrade Oupa Lehulere of Khanya
College with regards to the centrality of the industrial working class
proletariat contrasted to the role of the social movements organising in
communities. I think by and large he does to an certain extent balance
the role of social movements in communities with the industrial working
class. What I’m not clear about is what kind of organisational structure
comrade Dale argues before, because one of the major impediments that I
myself have experienced in terms of organising is that workers are
usually disempowered by the vanguardist politics of the revolutionary
parties and the hierarchies in terms of central command, for example
when organising strikes. So I can’t really say that I understand what
comrade Dale would argue for in terms of structure, but that would be a
key concern for me.

ZACF: Please tell us a bit about the regime's methods of repression. How
far does it depend on firearms etc; how important is the Chinese
connection in terms of arms trade etc.? Can you confirm whether or not
the infamous arms shipment got through to Zimbabwe?

Biko: The shipment was actually confirmed to have been received by a
minister in the regimes cabinet, so the shipment is in Zimbabwe now. It
is also another thing though that the fascist regime is prepared to use
all means of violence, firearms are central to that to suppress any
resistance. So firearms are key. ZANU PF years ago trained youth militia
under the National Youth Service Training Programme and those militia
are currently on standby and will be unleashed after the elections for
the cleansing of activists. Currently what they are using are the youth
structures of their party which are by and large very active in all the
various wards of the country. The police and the army were the first to
perpetrate repression and violence and this we saw in the pre-29th March
period and also of significance is the large number of activists who
have been murdered, middle layer leaders within the MDC, who were
actually murdered by members of the army during Operation Command which
is in charge of running the country. The army the police and the CIO.

ZACF: What about the repressive forces receiving training in Korea?

Biko: It is very key because I’m in fact aware of a number of places,
particularly in Harare’s Milton suburb that are being used as training
centers by not only Korean but also Chinese military personnel to train
ZANU PF cadres in methods of torture. This I can confirm because I’ve
witnessed it with my own eyes.

ZACF: How long is it actually going to take to get rid of Mugabe, and
what happens then? A government of national unity or the MDC? What kind
of policies will such a government adopt? Is there a danger of a return
to neo-liberalism; and what can be done to resist this?

Biko: Frankly I am not a firm believer in parliamentary politics as a
tool for the liberation of the working and poor people, so I’m pretty
much indifferent to what is going to happen after Mugabe because what is
clear to me is that the working and poor people in Zimbabwe are not
ready to take control of their lives because they have been brainwashed
by the ideology of the ruling class. The MDC, if assumes in power -
which I would say will happen in the next year or so if peoples power
and the resistance is organised properly - will pursue neo-liberal
polices. The only positive thing that I can see about an MDC government
is slightly broadened democratic space within which I think
revolutionary organisations, activists and movements can operate much
more flexibly to fight neo-liberalism.

ZACF: What about the role of other regional and international powers,
such as South Africa, UK, US, and China? Economic interests,
inter-imperialist rivalries, links to government & opposition etc.

Biko: Central to efforts by the international community to resolve the
Zimbabwean crisis has been South Africa, particularly Thabo Mbeki’s role
as the mediator of the Sadc initiated dialog. Thabo Mbeki I think is by
and large motivated by the South African state’s sub-imperialist
interest in the economy of Zimbabwe. I think also key to understanding
his relationship to ZANU PF is the relationship between the ANC, as a
party, to ZANU PF. We must also understand that Comrade Mbeki, if I
might call him a comrade (laughs), was educated - or his education was
financed - by ZANU PF; he was staying in Harare at the hospitality of
Robert Mugabe, and when he goes to meet Robert Mugabe he meets him as
his superior in terms of the nationalists as a movement. The role of the
West and the UK is motivated by the failure of the ZANU PF regime to
resolve the land issue in ZImbabwe and also the question of ownership of
means of production, which is central to the struggle. The United
Kingdom, as a state, harbors a hope that they might be able to reverse
the loss of the estates and perhaps companies or economic interests in
Zimbabwe as a result of Mugabe’s pseudo-leftist parties if an MDC
government comes to power. The US is an imperialist nation whose motives
around “resolving” international problems is purely economic. They would
want to open up the economy of Zimbabwe to the multinational
corporations that come from that particular state. So they do not have
the interests of the Zimbabwean people at heart. In terms of the
international community helping with the resolution of the crisis it can
only be people to people solidarity; poor and working people,
revolutionaries and organisations - similar minded - in various
countries all over the world rendering solidarity to the Zimbabwe people
with the interests of the empowerment of poor and working people in
Zimbabwe.

ZACF: What can you say about Thabo Mbeki, and do you think that Jacob
Zuma will be any better when he comes to power?

Biko: The relationship with the Zimbabwean state if ZANU PF is in power
will clearly be acrimonious because Jacob Zuma appears to be the new
favourite puppet of the West in light of his ability to hoodwink the
trade unions - Cosatu as a movement - into supporting him. It has become
clear I think to most of the imperialists that Jacob Zuma has the
popular support of the people but he is clearly another puppet in terms
of his relations with companies, the capitalists, and arms dealers and
he won’t have anything to offer the people of Zimbabwe, the ordinary
masses; but he will be, after Mbeki, the imperialists next favourite
puppet in terms of how their strategies are implemented within the
Southern African region.

ZACF: In terms of international solidarity, what can we do? Who is
helping in SA and elsewhere?

Biko: The transportation workers union I think signaled the direction
that workers need to take, unlike what we have seen - even though Cosatu
has been militant at times - but we have seen a lot of talk-shops around
what’s going on in Zimbabwe. But I think concrete action along the lines
of what SATAWU did in stopping the shipment of arms is the next direction.

ZACF: Any comments on the recent so-called xenophobic pogroms in South
Africa? Anything about Zimbabweans who fled the pogroms back across the
Limpopo? How significant is this from a Zimbabwean point of view and
what does it say about the South African government and people?

Biko: Firstly I’d like to register my understanding of the fundamental
causes of the xenophobic attacks which I think are primarily rooted in
the rate of unemployment currently obtained in South Africa, which is a
direct result of the capitalist economic structure that the South
African state is pursuing, and also the artificial food shortages which
are superficially created by the global capitalist complex in order to
initiate a hike in prices. I think those particular causes resonate with
the situation obtaining in Zimbabwe and do point to us having a common
enemy, which is capitalism. It is particularly disappointing though that
the xenophobic attacks also point towards and indicate to us the lack of
understanding of each others struggles that we as working people face,
which we have to overcome in order to be able to overcome the system.
The impact of people fleeing the xenophobic attacks and coming back to
Zimbabwe has on one hand the effect of bolstering the vote of the MDC,
because clearly those people are people who are disaffected by the ZANU
PF regime. But it has also tragically had the effect of worsening their
plight because the violence that did obtain in that short period in
South Africa is incomparable to the violence being perpetrated by the
ZANU PF regime back home, and these people are primary targets because
most of them did flee after some resistance activities and it is like
throwing these activists back into the lion’s den, and this is the
tragedy of our situation.

ZACF: There are rumors that MDC agents could actually have acted as
provocateurs and brought about these attacks in order to cause
Zimbabweans to flee back home and therefore bolster their support during
the elections. Do you think this is a possibility, or do you think its
the South African government trying to divert responsibility?

Biko: Whilst I cannot really comment with confidence about what really
happened in South Africa as I was in Zimbabwe I am inclined to believe
that third force conspiracies are really something to drive us away from
the responsibility that the ANC government has towards the poor and
working people in South Africa which is the fundamental cause. Like I
said before the MDC is actually a cocktail of ideologies and is a party
that cuts across class; most of the influential people in the MDC are
not really pro-working people so it is actually possible that people
whose interests do not lie with the working people might be able to have
their buddies to influence this but I would much rather focus on the
role that the polices pursued by the ANC government have had on the
xenophobic attacks.

ZACF: What role do you think nationalism might have played in these attacks?

Biko: Capital is globalised, the capitalist in Jo’burg is able to send
huge amounts of money to Harare in seconds whereas the peoples’ movement
is restricted by these borders, and that people are forced to recognise
these ideological constructs limited to the ruling classes propaganda
with these geographical zones and I think that has been key to shaping
the thoughts that we have seen manifest in this very tragic way during
the xenophobic attacks. And I think that our role as progressives and
revolutionaries is then to try to share the ideas that we uphold of a
world that has no borders, and I think that is the way forward in
addressing xenophobia across the world.

ZACF: Any messages to the international anarchist movement? Any appeals
or suggestions for how the international anarchist movement can support
the struggle in Zimbabwe and help the advancement of anarchist ideas there?

Biko: Firstly, ahoy comrades and we appreciate the efforts that the
movement has been receiving so far. We as the Uhuru Network have
significantly benefited from our relationship with the ZACF in terms of
the literature that we have managed to get and also the experiences that
we share with comrades. Currently the realisation that we need to remind
each other that the anarchist movement is a very small movement within
the broader leftist movement but also within the pro-democracy movement
and that our true anarchist comrades are at risk, especially when we
have levels or repression such as are obtaining in Zimbabwe. We need to
constantly communicate, interact, share experiences and also information
about actions happening because when shit hits the fan it is only an
anarchist that will be able to give appropriate solidarity to a fellow
anarchist comrade.

Toyi Toyi Artz Kollektive
http://www.toyitoyi.blogspot.com/

Interview with Comrade Fatso AKA Samm Farai Monro, cultural activist and
artistic facilitator for Magamba! The Cultural Activist Network,
Zimbabwe. Conducted in Johannesburg on 21st June 2008 by the ZACF.

ZACF: Have you heard about the regime's alleged 3-stage election scheme
("electoral cleansing", falsify the vote, declare a state of emergency)?

Fatso: I heard of this plan, I think I read about it in the media and
its obvious that they’re going ahead with the first two. At least there
definitely is electoral cleansing going on, in the sense of getting rid
of opposition support from the rural areas, where the majority of voters
are, and also getting rid of any local election observers and poll
monitors. And on declaring a state of emergency; its quite likely that’s
something they could do in the build up to or straight after the
elections. All they’d need is a peaceful demonstration or even less they
could once against fabricate stories of supposed conspiracies, and I
wouldn’t put that beyond them.

ZACF: Do you think this is an accurate understanding of Mugabe's
intentions and, if so, will he pull it off?

Fatso: I think what is likely is they will rig the elections. They’ve
shown they don’t give a damn about even the foreign observers; there
have been two people shot in front of Namibian election observers a
couple of days ago. If they don’t declare a state of emergency a very
likely scenario is that, after winning, they’ll patch together a
government of national unity which would be more in the sense of
absorbing the MDC and then slowly taking it apart as it becomes part of
the government, which of course ZANU PF would run.

ZACF: Can you tell us something about conditions on the ground in
Zimbabwe, the extent of repression etc.. We'd like to hear about
something else other than the repeated arrests of Tsvangirai & other MDC
big-shots.

Fatso: What’s going on on the ground is the abduction, torture and
murder of grassroots activists from across the board. Mainly MDC
activists are being targeted but also those from Women of Zimbabwe
Arise, from the National Constitutional Assembly, different movements
have also been targeted. Four bodies of MDC activists were found a few
days ago. They were from Chitungwiza, which is the biggest township in
Harare, and they had been abducted, tortured, beaten and murdered. And
there are also political prisoners. WOZA’s leadership has been arrested
and is being held until after the elections. What ZANU has now started
is that dictatorial trend of taking political prisoners, which it didn’t
necessarily do in the past. Those are some of the things that are happening.

ZACF: And the economy: hyperinflation, availability of food & other
basic necessities, unemployment are common knowledge. Perhaps you have
some comments on the origin of the economic crisis?

Fatso: Everyone knows about the hyper inflation and that we’re moving
into the trillions. You have to spend trillions of dollars on certain
basic things. Economically there has been a decline, really since the
1990s, with the introduction of Structural Adjustment Programmes and the
commercialisation of parastatals, the removal of tariffs on Western
imported goods and the removal of subsides that supported local
industry. All of this was World Bank backed Structural Adjustment
Programmes which led to the average worker being twice as poor in 1995
as they were in 1980, it led to a large amount of school drop-outs, it
led to increased unemployment and worse wages. So the economic decline
really started more in the 1990s, and that’s something that doesn’t get
reported on that much in foreign media. And of course then this
precipitated Mugabe fighting against those demanding economic justice;
the workers and students. Mugabe fighting against them by using the land
issue, and beginning to repress his opposition and destroying the
economy in order to entrench their patronage system; so there’s been a
steady decline since the mid-nineties until now.

ZACF: What is the role of the MDC? Have they handled things well or
badly? Again, historical comments on how they've blundered in the past
might be helpful.

Fatso: I give respect to MDC for having fought the struggle and for
having risked so much. I do think that strategically they’ve made
mistakes, and their relationship with the people hasn’t always been as
direct as it should have been and their information hasn’t gotten out as
much as it should have. I do respect them still for putting themselves
in the forefront of the struggle, but I think also that there has to be
a lot more coordination with the civics and social movements.

ZACF: Some people have criticised Tsvangirai for having spent so long
outside of Zimbabwe, trying to muster International support instead of
providing leadership on the ground. Any comments?

Fatso: I think it was, on the one hand, a wise idea for him to leave the
country and drum up support in the region. I think he achieved a lot
within Sadc. Definitely he achieved quite a few breakthroughs with Sadc
heads of state in getting them to support the peoples’ side of what’s
going on in Zimbabwe, but I do think he stayed out for too long and
peoples’ hopes started dissipating. And he is now back - I think he came
back a bit late - but he is now back and he obviously always has risks
of arrest and assassination on his head. You’ve seen what they’ve done
to Tendai Biti the Secretary General, who is one of the key players and
one of the brightest minds in the MDC. By taking Tendai out of the game
they have definitely dealt quite a harsh blow to MDC.

ZACF: Can you tell us a little about the current state of resistance &
prospects for the future; whether resistance is organised primarily or
only by MDC or whether there’s other resistance; the trade unions
movement, civics etc.?

Fatso: I think there’s various types of resistance, MDC’s is one form.
Amongst the civics I think the most powerful movement is Women of
Zimbabwe Arise, a very powerful social movement made up of women, which
focuses on social justice issues, takes to the streets where necessary,
believes in direct action and is a national movement that has got
sections all over the country. And then there are other forms of
resistance. There are the civics, and there’s those like ourselves that
use arts and culture in the struggle. We’ve got our network Magamba! The
Cultural Activist Network, and we put on different resistance shows as
ways of keeping peoples inspiration high, giving people that food for
resistance. I think there are different forms of resistance that happen
and no, its not at all exclusively the MDC.

ZACF: At the Southern African Social Forum in 2005 you had a performance
in Harare Gardens that was openly critical of the regime, in broad view
of everyone, yet there wasn’t any state repression metered out against
people that participated. Is that because of the high profile of
cultural activists, or what do you attribute that to?

Fatso: It’s a difficult one. They do come and threaten and monitor; they
monitor our performances, they call us up afterwards to interrogate us
informally. Sometimes they probably think their presence is enough to
stop people coming, and sometimes their presence does stop some people
coming into our shows. We’ve had that before, where people said “No I’m
not coming in because I know those guys, I know what they’re capable
of”. But their strategy is also to censor the arts, I mean my album has
been banned. They’ve given a blanket silence in all state media
meanwhile the non-state media has given it very good reviews -of course,
its a resistance album - but they censor those who don’t support them.

ZACF: Please tell us a bit about the regime's methods of repression. How
far does it depend on firearms etc; how important is the Chinese
connection in terms of arms trade etc.?

Fatso: The regime will always resort to using arms and especially right
now, in the build up to elections, there are more reports of people
being shot. The soldiers and Youth Militia are all being used in an
attempt to destroy the peoples will. With regards to the Chinese, there
has been an important connection there; they have provided everything
from police vehicles, baton sticks, army vehicles, arms and the like. So
there is a definite connection.

ZACF: Can you confirm whether or not the infamous arms shipment got
through to Zimbabwe?

Fatso: I’ve got no specific information of on that.

ZACF: How long is it actually going to take to get rid of Mugabe, and
what happens then? A government of national unity or the MDC? What kind
of policies will such a government adopt? Is there a danger of a return
to neo-liberalism; and what can be done to resist this?

Fatso: One never knows how long it will take to get rid of Mugabe, but I
do think its the final days of ZANU PF. I don’t think they can go on
much longer. I think a form of government of national unity is what
would come about, even MDC have talked of this; that there is such
polarisation in Zimbabwe that the MDC alone may not be able to take all
the people with it. So there is likelihood that if the MDC was to form a
government of them bringing in certain elements of ZANU PF, more
reformed so-called progressive elements. There are progressive aspects
to what MDC wants to put in place; they talk a lot about a people-based
economy and people-centered constitution, but it needs to be seen in
practice because one problem with Zimbabwe is that there’s a big
likelihood that, in a new, independent and free Zimbabwe, that in order
to get foreign investment a lot of the country and its resources will be
sold off to foreign investors and foreign corporations. That would be a
very quick-fix way of bringing money into the economy, but of course
we’d end up seeing resources being in the hand of foreigners and
Zimbabweans not benefiting. So I think that’s one think to look out for,
and another is getting into debt. We have a huge illegitimate foreign
debt that we should not pay. Some of it was incurred by Rhodesia and the
rest was incurred by ZANU PF and none of that should be paid back; its
illegitimate. The policies that should be put in place should be
policies that focus more on social and economic justice, and I think
that if those kind of policies don’t start to be put in place then
people, because the democratic space would technically be larger under
the MDC one would hope, people will still have that knowledge and
tradition of the basic struggles for water, the basic struggles for food
that formed a lot of the core struggles during our struggle for
democracy today and would hopefully be able to continue the struggle for
social and economic justice. I don’t think it ends with MDC being in
power, I think freedom is never fully attained and a lot of the
movements will morph into new movements and new movement will be born
and the struggle for peoples basic socio-economic rights will continue.

ZACF: What about the role of other regional and international powers,
such as South Africa, the UK, US, and China? Economic interests,
inter-imperialist rivalries, links to government & opposition?

Fatso: I think a new Zimbabwe will be a prime picking ground for South
Africa, the UK, US and also I think its very important for any
government in place to be aware of what progressive policies have to be
in place and not selling off the country and its assets, because
Zimbabwe had the second biggest industrial base in the region with
self-sufficiency in food, and that’s something which has to be
reestablished without selling it out to the foreigners.

ZACF: What can you say about Thabo Mbeki, and do you think that Jacob
Zuma will be any better when he comes to power?

Fatso: I think Mbeki has been an absolute dismal failure in being the
Sadc appointed mediator. Zuma’s statements have been progressive, but
then he’s also someone who is known to be a populist and known to ride
on popular waves of popular thinking. So his statements and the new ANC
leadership’s statements on Zimbabwe have been much more progressive than
anything we’ve heard from Mbeki and his ANC, but the proof of it will be
in the action rather than in the public statements.

ZACF: In terms of international solidarity, what can we do? Who is
helping in SA and elsewhere?

Fatso: I think a lot of Zimbabwean people were very empowered by the
regional solidarity that came about from the civics especially in South
Africa around the arms issue, Cosatu affiliated trade unions refusing to
offload, refusing to transport the shipment. The South African
Litigations Center taking the boat to court. I think that was very
powerful civic solidarity; the South African government had nothing to
do with it. That was showing how social movements and civics can be a
powerful force for good within society. So I think actions like that
where social movements take the forefront, don’t wait for governmental
action, I think that’s important. Many forms of solidarity can happen;
even in the concert today when people walk in they will sign individual
letters addressed to Thabo Mbeki on Zimbabwe, and those will be sent to
him. So different forms of awareness raising, different forms of
solidarity are key in struggle.

ZACF: Any comments on the recent so-called xenophobic pogroms in South
Africa? Anything about Zimbabweans who fled the pogroms back across the
Limpopo? How significant is this from a Zimbabwean point of view and
what does it say about the South African government and people?

Fatso: I think what its shown is what happens after more than ten years
of elitist policies within South Africa that have lead to a blossoming
so-called black diamond middle class and a hugely growing economy but a
population where 40% are unemployed and most of the people live in
absolutely squalid conditions. That should be a wake-up call. The
neo-liberal policies that have been in place have not worked, they’ve
benefitted the rich and not the poor and that should be a wake-up call
to the ANC about what policies its putting in place. And at the same
time, from our side, a better Zimbabwe means a better South Africa in
the sense that we won’t have all these refugees coming over to South
Africa if we didn’t have the crisis in Zimbabwe in the first place.

Comrade Fatso
http://www.comradefatso.com/
Magamba! The Cultural Activist Network
http://www.myspace.com/magamba

http://www.zabalaza.net

--
Dan Clore

My collected fiction: _The Unspeakable and Others_
http://tinyurl.com/2gcoqt
Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://tinyurl.com/292yz9
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo

Skipper: Professor, will you tell these people who is
in charge on this island?
Professor: Why, no one.
Skipper: No one?
Thurston Howell III: No one? Good heavens, this is anarchy!
-- _Gilligan's Island_, episode #6, "President Gilligan"