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PeterBP
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 Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:23 am Post subject: Re: The great tax clawback scam - how government milks the p |
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<royls@telus.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:38:48 -0700 (PDT), Werner <whetzner@mac.com
wrote:
On Jun 29, 3:36=C2=A0pm, no...@jose.com (PeterBP) wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D6ZkfmY1PMng
=2E..
It is not so at all. The titles of nobility are still there, but there
are more people with them, and they are less formal and aristocratic
today than they were then, and the privilege bestowed upon the
titleholder is more subtle.
Here's your choice as a citizen today: Go to work and break your back on
making a living for yourself, your family and the invisible landlord, or
go on welfare, and become a subservient vote sheep of politicians who
stuff your ears full of garbage about fighting for your rights and
welfare, but still in the end serving the priviliged classes - and NOT
you.
That's your cake; eat it!
As welfare people get politicians to force others to pay their bills
for them it seems reasonable to consider them nobility. They are a
socialist aristocracy.
?? ROTFL!!
Yeah, the poor are the aristocracy, the idle rich are the exploited
underclass...
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The sentence can be read both ways, though the politicians seems the
more likely candiate of the aristocracy in that case.
| Quote: |
In fact, of course, it is the rent-collecting aristocracy that gets
politicians to force others to pay its bills, and the amount of money
they collect in return for contributing nothing is an order of
magnitude more than the poor get in welfare.
|
Both are true, but the root cause remains privilege in owning land; due
to understandable desparation, the disposessed strike back with lack of
understanding of the problem and vote for those who at first glance
_seem_ to speak their case, namely the socialists and welfareists.
Of course, voting for them is like trying to cure illness by
bloodletting.
| Quote: |
Ever thought of READING what you write before posting it?
Governing has become a way to get privileges for some at the expense
of others.
Right: privileges for the rent-collecting rich at the expense of the
productive.
-- Roy L
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Politicising could also be considered a rent-seeking strategy. After
all, even after anything short of disatrous tenures in government, a
high-profile politician is assured a golden seat in private business.
--
regards , Peter B. P. - http://titancity.com/blog/
"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes
you nothing. It was here first." - Mark Twain |
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Werner
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:38 am Post subject: Re: The great tax clawback scam - how government milks the p |
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On Jul 1, 8:14 pm, "Mark M." <m...@ztech.com> wrote:
....
| Quote: |
Government should be as strong as necessary to oppose the
forces who would seek private gain at the expense of the
common good. Simply making government weak in itself does
not guarantee good results.
|
Whose common good?
http://www.capitaldistrict-lp.org/Myth.shtml |
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Mark M.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:14 am Post subject: Re: The great tax clawback scam - how government milks the p |
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Werner wrote:
| Quote: |
On Jul 1, 2:53 pm, ro...@telus.net wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:38:48 -0700 (PDT), Werner <whetz...@mac.com
wrote:
On Jun 29, 3:36=C2=A0pm, no...@jose.com (PeterBP) wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D6ZkfmY1PMng
=2E..
It is not so at all. The titles of nobility are still there, but there
are more people with them, and they are less formal and aristocratic
today than they were then, and the privilege bestowed upon the
titleholder is more subtle.
Here's your choice as a citizen today: Go to work and break your back on
making a living for yourself, your family and the invisible landlord, or
go on welfare, and become a subservient vote sheep of politicians who
stuff your ears full of garbage about fighting for your rights and
welfare, but still in the end serving the priviliged classes - and NOT
you.
That's your cake; eat it!
As welfare people get politicians to force others to pay their bills
for them it seems reasonable to consider them nobility. They are a
socialist aristocracy.
?? ROTFL!!
Yeah, the poor are the aristocracy, the idle rich are the exploited
underclass...
In fact, of course, it is the rent-collecting aristocracy that gets
politicians to force others to pay its bills
If politicians had little power they could dispense fewer privileges
to either rent-collecting aristocracy or rent-collecting welfare
recipients.
|
Government should be as strong as necessary to oppose the
forces who would seek private gain at the expense of the
common good. Simply making government weak in itself does
not guarantee good results.
Mark M. |
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Dan in Philly
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:14 am Post subject: Re: The great tax clawback scam - how government milks the p |
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"PeterBP" <noway@jose.com> wrote in message ...
| Quote: |
The Fed doesn't care about land prices. It only cares about inflation
(goods
and services, not assets) and unemployment.
Not quite - it has interest in Seignorage - that is, the profit from
minting money.
|
Technically, the government gets the seignorage. Ben Bernanke gets paid a
straight salary. |
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Dan in Philly
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:24 am Post subject: Re: The great tax clawback scam - how government milks the p |
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<royls@telus.net> wrote in message ...
| Quote: |
Easy money has its genesis in debt because virtually all our money IS
debt:
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About 90% IIRC.
| Quote: |
there is no way to create money other than by lending it into
existence at interest.
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Actually the government could create paper money and spend it. No debt
needed. (that would become the 10% if you have fractional reserve banking;
then the banks would make the other 90%).
| Quote: |
And spending more than earning is exactly the problem, but not in the
way you mean. The people spending more than they are earning are the
rent-collecting parasites -- landowners, mortgage lenders and IP
owners -- who like to spend the economic rent that by definition they
cannot possibly be earning.
|
You have a unique definition of "earning."
Dan in Philly |
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Dan in Philly
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:31 am Post subject: Re: The great tax clawback scam - how government milks the p |
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"Werner" wrote in message ...
| Quote: |
Still, easy money to help employment is at the cost of inflation and
economic inefficiency. There is no free lunch. Some benefit at the
cost of others. Should the market decide this? Or should politics?
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Why not both? Let the Fed control Federal Reserve notes. If you want to make
your own currency (and can get other people to use it - that's the hard
part) go ahead.
| Quote: |
?http://www.capitaldistrict-lp.org/how.shtml
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Surprise, surprise -- Ron Paul, Lib. Party, etc.
Dan in Philly |
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Dan in Philly
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:42 am Post subject: Re: The great tax clawback scam - how government milks the p |
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"PeterBP" <noway@jose.com> wrote in message ...
| Quote: |
but the root cause remains privilege in owning land
|
I don't see any 'privilege' in owning land anymore; I'm pretty sure it gets
the standard rate of return.
The real rent-collectors were the ones who originally got the land at less
than the present discounted value of future rents. I suspect few of them (or
their heirs) still own that land.
Dan in Philly |
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The Trucker
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:54 am Post subject: Re: The great tax clawback scam - how government milks the p |
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On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 01:42:46 +0000, Dan in Philly wrote:
| Quote: |
"PeterBP" <noway@jose.com> wrote in message ...
but the root cause remains privilege in owning land
I don't see any 'privilege' in owning land anymore; I'm pretty sure it gets
the standard rate of return.
|
Why should it get any return at all?
| Quote: |
The real rent-collectors were the ones who originally got the land at less
than the present discounted value of future rents. I suspect few of them (or
their heirs) still own that land.
Dan in Philly
-- |
"I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers
of society but the people themselves; and
if we think them not enlightened enough to
exercise their control with a wholesome
discretion, the remedy is not to take it from
them, but to inform their discretion by
education." - Thomas Jefferson
http://GreaterVoice.org/extend |
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The Trucker
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:50 am Post subject: Re: The great tax clawback scam - how government milks the p |
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On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 21:38:24 -0700, Werner wrote:
| Quote: |
On Jul 1, 8:14 pm, "Mark M." <m...@ztech.com> wrote:
....
Government should be as strong as necessary to oppose the
forces who would seek private gain at the expense of the
common good. Simply making government weak in itself does
not guarantee good results.
Whose common good?
http://www.capitaldistrict-lp.org/Myth.shtml
|
I know I shouldn't try to argue with a queue ball, but I'm bored. It seems
to me that you believe that your version of the common good is better than
the rest of us. It is a religious position as all "good" ultimately must
be; an opinion. Your version of the "common good" is a lack of any form
of common good. That is like some folks want a total lack of religion or
they believe that their particular religion is the very definition of good.
Only a complete and utter moron can believe that there is no "common
good". Such a moron is saying that the lack of "common good" is in the
common good.
--
"I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers
of society but the people themselves; and
if we think them not enlightened enough to
exercise their control with a wholesome
discretion, the remedy is not to take it from
them, but to inform their discretion by
education." - Thomas Jefferson
http://GreaterVoice.org/extend |
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Day Brown
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:42 am Post subject: Re: The great tax clawback scam - how government milks the p |
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The Trucker wrote:
| Quote: |
On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 01:42:46 +0000, Dan in Philly wrote:
"PeterBP" <noway@jose.com> wrote in message ...
but the root cause remains privilege in owning land
I don't see any 'privilege' in owning land anymore; I'm pretty sure it gets
the standard rate of return.
Why should it get any return at all?
Some land is fertile enuf, if properly managed, to grow food. |
They get 155 bu of corn/acre now. Corn is running about 6.75$
a bushel, or over 1000$/acre at harvest.
More marginal land will still grow sorghum, which can produce
over 100 gallons of ethanol/acre, which can then be converted
by bacteria into butanol, which you can put in your gas tank
and the engine will never know the difference.
So, that's $400 for the butanol. But you also get the mash,
which you can raise beef on, and the seed, which you can feed
poultry with. Thus, you can get fuel, meat, milk, and eggs.
And since butanol is made of carbon, nitrogen, and oxygen, all
of which come from the rain and atmosphere, and you can recycle
the manure back on the soil, you can grow it indefinately without
much in the way of fertilizer.
---- Posted via Pronews.com - Premium Corporate Usenet News Provider ----
http://www.pronews.com offers corporate packages that have access to 100,000+ newsgroups |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: The great tax clawback scam - how government milks the p |
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On Jul 2, 4:49 am, "Dan in Philly" <d...@aol.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
"The Trucker" <mik...@verizon.net> wrote in message ...
I don't see any 'privilege' in owning land anymore; I'm pretty sure it
gets
the standard rate of return.
Why should it get any return at all?
Because the new owner paid money for it.
|
I'm pretty sure that paying for something doesn't entitle one to a
return.
Think of all those house speculators who've lost their shirts. |
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Werner
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: The great tax clawback scam - how government milks the p |
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On Jul 2, 12:50 am, The Trucker <mik...@verizon.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 21:38:24 -0700, Werner wrote:
On Jul 1, 8:14 pm, "Mark M." <m...@ztech.com> wrote:
....
Government should be as strong as necessary to oppose the
forces who would seek private gain at the expense of the
common good. Simply making government weak in itself does
not guarantee good results.
Whose common good?
http://www.capitaldistrict-lp.org/Myth.shtml
I know I shouldn't try to argue with a queue ball, but I'm bored. It seems
to me that you believe that your version of the common good is better than
the rest of us. It is a religious position as all "good" ultimately must
be; an opinion. Your version of the "common good" is a lack of any form
of common good. That is like some folks want a total lack of religion or
they believe that their particular religion is the very definition of good..
Only a complete and utter moron can believe that there is no "common
good". Such a moron is saying that the lack of "common good" is in the
common good.
--
|
Enlighten me. What is The Common Good? |
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Dan in Philly
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: The great tax clawback scam - how government milks the p |
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"The Trucker" <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote in message ...
| Quote: |
I don't see any 'privilege' in owning land anymore; I'm pretty sure it
gets
the standard rate of return.
Why should it get any return at all?
|
Because the new owner paid money for it.
Dan in Philly |
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Werner
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: The great tax clawback scam - how government milks the p |
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On Jul 2, 2:00 pm, The Trucker <mik...@verizon.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 08:02:30 -0700, Werner wrote:
On Jul 2, 12:50 am, The Trucker <mik...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 21:38:24 -0700, Werner wrote:
On Jul 1, 8:14 pm, "Mark M." <m...@ztech.com> wrote:
....
Government should be as strong as necessary to oppose the
forces who would seek private gain at the expense of the
common good. Simply making government weak in itself does
not guarantee good results.
Whose common good?
http://www.capitaldistrict-lp.org/Myth.shtml
I know I shouldn't try to argue with a queue ball, but I'm bored. It seems
to me that you believe that your version of the common good is better than
the rest of us. It is a religious position as all "good" ultimately must
be; an opinion. Your version of the "common good" is a lack of any form
of common good. That is like some folks want a total lack of religion or
they believe that their particular religion is the very definition of good.
Only a complete and utter moron can believe that there is no "common
good". Such a moron is saying that the lack of "common good" is in the
common good.
--
Enlighten me. What is The Common Good?
Whatever __**WE**__ say it is.
--
|
Enlighten me. Who is WE? |
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The Trucker
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: The great tax clawback scam - how government milks the p |
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On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 00:42:19 -0500, Day Brown wrote:
| Quote: |
The Trucker wrote:
On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 01:42:46 +0000, Dan in Philly wrote:
"PeterBP" <noway@jose.com> wrote in message ...
but the root cause remains privilege in owning land
I don't see any 'privilege' in owning land anymore; I'm pretty sure it gets
the standard rate of return.
Why should it get any return at all?
Some land is fertile enuf, if properly managed, to grow food.
They get 155 bu of corn/acre now. Corn is running about 6.75$
a bushel, or over 1000$/acre at harvest.
More marginal land will still grow sorghum, which can produce
over 100 gallons of ethanol/acre, which can then be converted
by bacteria into butanol, which you can put in your gas tank
and the engine will never know the difference.
So, that's $400 for the butanol. But you also get the mash,
which you can raise beef on, and the seed, which you can feed
poultry with. Thus, you can get fuel, meat, milk, and eggs.
And since butanol is made of carbon, nitrogen, and oxygen, all
of which come from the rain and atmosphere, and you can recycle
the manure back on the soil, you can grow it indefinately without
much in the way of fertilizer.
---- Posted via Pronews.com - Premium Corporate Usenet News Provider ----
http://www.pronews.com offers corporate packages that have access to 100,000+ newsgroups
|
But none of that has to do with a private return to the ownership of land.
The user of the land will pay the market rate for the use of the land.
That will allocate the land to best use. The money paid for the use of
the land need not be placed into the pocket of a land owner. There is no
justification for a land owner. There is justification for
redistributing the rent to all.
--
"I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers
of society but the people themselves; and
if we think them not enlightened enough to
exercise their control with a wholesome
discretion, the remedy is not to take it from
them, but to inform their discretion by
education." - Thomas Jefferson
http://GreaterVoice.org/extend |
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