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Danwood
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 Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:34 am Post subject: The Laws of Physics Are Fine Tuned For life |
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The laws of physics (constants) are such as to permit the
rise of life. IOW the physical constants have been found
to be precisely tuned at the values that are necessary for
the rise, order and the sustaining of life. Is this just a series
of incrediable coincidence or is it the result of "fine tuning"?
There is compelling evidence for the idea that the universes
physical constants are fine tuned. However, several arguments
have been raised against this. Perhaps the most compelling is
the argument that there could very well be an infinite number
of other universes where the constants are different. Then
it is not surprising that we find ourselves in a universe with
the right combinations to permit the rise of life.
Danwood |
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Danwood
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: The Laws of Physics Are Fine Tuned For life |
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"harry k" <turnkey4099@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5185205e-8d5d-4339-8b74-8f2d72e8b531@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 24, 10:34 pm, "Danwood" <drw...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
The laws of physics (constants) are such as to permit the
rise of life. IOW the physical constants have been found
to be precisely tuned at the values that are necessary for
the rise, order and the sustaining of life. Is this just a series
of incrediable coincidence or is it the result of "fine tuning"?
There is compelling evidence for the idea that the universes
physical constants are fine tuned. However, several arguments
have been raised against this. Perhaps the most compelling is
the argument that there could very well be an infinite number
of other universes where the constants are different. Then
it is not surprising that we find ourselves in a universe with
the right combinations to permit the rise of life.
Danwood
|
Did you ever stop to consider that perhaps life evolved to fit the
conditions that prevailed, i.e., life is fine tuned to the conditions
on earth?
| Quote: |
First there must be a universe. According to Martin Rees, the |
number (omega) is one of six universal constants that is
particular crucial to the formation of our universe. He writes,
(quote) the number "omega tell us the relative importance of
gravity and expansion energy in the universe. If this ratio were
too high relative to a particular 'critical' value, the universe
would have collapsed long ago; had it been too low, no galaxies
or stars would have formed. The initial expansion speed seems
to have been finely tuned."
Ref: (Rees, Just Six Numbers, 1999, pg. 2,3)
That allows for life around black smokers in conditions
where "normal" life would perish instantly.
It also allows for life arising on planets in other systems with
natural evironments quite different from earth.
But then I would bet that to you, life on earth is the only life
possible.
| Quote: |
No, I would not make any such claim. Perhaps there is |
no life elsewhere, other than earth, but it's an impossible
position, one that cannot be justified or substantiated.
Harry K |
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Danwood
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: The Laws of Physics Are Fine Tuned For life |
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"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in message
news:c21564dtbauk3oraethrtd11gt5lmtiv6i@4ax.com...
| Quote: |
On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 01:34:51 -0400, "Danwood" <drwood@bellsouth.net
wrote:
The laws of physics (constants) are such as to permit the
rise of life. IOW the physical constants have been found
to be precisely tuned at the values that are necessary for
the rise, order and the sustaining of life. Is this just a series
of incrediable coincidence or is it the result of "fine tuning"?
There is compelling evidence for the idea that the universes
physical constants are fine tuned. However, several arguments
have been raised against this. Perhaps the most compelling is
the argument that there could very well be an infinite number
of other universes where the constants are different. Then
it is not surprising that we find ourselves in a universe with
the right combinations to permit the rise of life.
sigh> Yet another variation of the 'puddle argument'.
The Puddle argument is flawed. |
D. Wood
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Wombat
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: The Laws of Physics Are Fine Tuned For life |
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On 25 Jun, 07:34, "Danwood" <drw...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
The laws of physics (constants) are such as to permit the
rise of life. IOW the physical constants have been found
to be precisely tuned at the values that are necessary for
the rise, order and the sustaining of life. Is this just a series
of incrediable coincidence or is it the result of "fine tuning"?
There is compelling evidence for the idea that the universes
physical constants are fine tuned. However, several arguments
have been raised against this. Perhaps the most compelling is
the argument that there could very well be an infinite number
of other universes where the constants are different. Then
it is not surprising that we find ourselves in a universe with
the right combinations to permit the rise of life.
Danwood
|
And?
Wombat |
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harry k
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: The Laws of Physics Are Fine Tuned For life |
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On Jun 24, 10:34 pm, "Danwood" <drw...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
The laws of physics (constants) are such as to permit the
rise of life. IOW the physical constants have been found
to be precisely tuned at the values that are necessary for
the rise, order and the sustaining of life. Is this just a series
of incrediable coincidence or is it the result of "fine tuning"?
There is compelling evidence for the idea that the universes
physical constants are fine tuned. However, several arguments
have been raised against this. Perhaps the most compelling is
the argument that there could very well be an infinite number
of other universes where the constants are different. Then
it is not surprising that we find ourselves in a universe with
the right combinations to permit the rise of life.
Danwood
|
Did you ever stop to consider that perhaps life evolved to fit the
conditions that prevailed, i.e., life is fine tuned to the conditions
on earth? That allows for life around black smokers in conditions
where "normal" life would perish instantly.
It also allows for life arising on planets in other systems with
natural evironments quite different from earth.
But then I would bet that to you, life on earth is the only life
possible
Harry K |
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Danwood
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: The Laws of Physics Are Fine Tuned For life |
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"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in message
news:rfg564t5o6n1mgf8kojieb1m5iqfavrlao@4ax.com...
| Quote: |
On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 08:08:21 -0400, "Danwood" <drwood@bellsouth.net
wrote:
"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in message
news:c21564dtbauk3oraethrtd11gt5lmtiv6i@4ax.com...
On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 01:34:51 -0400, "Danwood" <drwood@bellsouth.net
wrote:
The laws of physics (constants) are such as to permit the
rise of life. IOW the physical constants have been found
to be precisely tuned at the values that are necessary for
the rise, order and the sustaining of life. Is this just a series
of incrediable coincidence or is it the result of "fine tuning"?
There is compelling evidence for the idea that the universes
physical constants are fine tuned. However, several arguments
have been raised against this. Perhaps the most compelling is
the argument that there could very well be an infinite number
of other universes where the constants are different. Then
it is not surprising that we find ourselves in a universe with
the right combinations to permit the rise of life.
sigh> Yet another variation of the 'puddle argument'.
The Puddle argument is flawed.
And yours isn't?
No!
D. Wood
Danwood
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Danwood
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: The Laws of Physics Are Fine Tuned For life |
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"Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c8B8k.15080$s77.6549@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
| Quote: |
"Danwood" <drwood@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:Bgv8k.4672$NQ5.4443@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
The laws of physics (constants) are such as to permit the
rise of life. IOW the physical constants have been found
to be precisely tuned at the values that are necessary for
the rise, order and the sustaining of life. Is this just a series
of incrediable coincidence or is it the result of "fine tuning"?
If this is so then life must be abundant in the universe. One of the
biggest errors in the examination of these constants is that the
assumption is made that if a constant has a different value then all other
'constant' values will remain the same. This is not necessarily so. An
argument such as this, however, is never settled as the question is always
present are we here because we were designed for the universe or are we
here because the universe met the conditions which enabled us to evolve.
There is compelling evidence for the idea that the universes
physical constants are fine tuned. However, several arguments
have been raised against this. Perhaps the most compelling is
the argument that there could very well be an infinite number
of other universes where the constants are different. Then
it is not surprising that we find ourselves in a universe with
the right combinations to permit the rise of life.
Although the multiverse is an option, I wouldn't say it is the most
compelling.
What would you say was the most compelling argument against |
the anthropic principle?
Dan
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Danwood
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:17 pm Post subject: Re: The Laws of Physics Are Fine Tuned For life |
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"Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
news:utn5649vdn1v7fk1dcu42ecugkt35acga0@4ax.com...
| Quote: |
On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 08:08:21 -0400, in alt.talk.creationism
"Danwood" <drwood@bellsouth.net> wrote in
71B8k.15076$s77.9420@bignews3.bellsouth.net>:
"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in message
news:c21564dtbauk3oraethrtd11gt5lmtiv6i@4ax.com...
On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 01:34:51 -0400, "Danwood" <drwood@bellsouth.net
wrote:
The laws of physics (constants) are such as to permit the
rise of life. IOW the physical constants have been found
to be precisely tuned at the values that are necessary for
the rise, order and the sustaining of life. Is this just a series
of incrediable coincidence or is it the result of "fine tuning"?
There is compelling evidence for the idea that the universes
physical constants are fine tuned. However, several arguments
have been raised against this. Perhaps the most compelling is
the argument that there could very well be an infinite number
of other universes where the constants are different. Then
it is not surprising that we find ourselves in a universe with
the right combinations to permit the rise of life.
sigh> Yet another variation of the 'puddle argument'.
The Puddle argument is flawed.
Please explain your claim
The parameters of the pothole makes no difference. It |
doesn't matter how deep, what shape or how large
the pot-hole happens to be, the puddle will always find that
it fits perfectly. This is not the case with laws of physics.
The universes existence depends critically upon the
parameters of the Universal constants being precisely
"tuned".
Martin Rees list six constants critical to the universes
existence and life. Had any one been "untuned" there
would be no stars and no life.
Rees, Just Six Numbers, 1999, pg 4 |
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Danwood
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: The Laws of Physics Are Fine Tuned For life |
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"harry k" <turnkey4099@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9350c243-3c50-410e-a54f-[snip]>
| Quote: |
What would you say was the most compelling argument against
the anthropic principle?
Dan
errmmm....Ignorance??
You think ignorance is the most compelling argument against |
the Anthropic Principle? I'm surprised.
> Harry K |
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John Baker
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:46 pm Post subject: Re: The Laws of Physics Are Fine Tuned For life |
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On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 01:34:51 -0400, "Danwood" <drwood@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
| Quote: |
The laws of physics (constants) are such as to permit the
rise of life. IOW the physical constants have been found
to be precisely tuned at the values that are necessary for
the rise, order and the sustaining of life. Is this just a series
of incrediable coincidence or is it the result of "fine tuning"?
There is compelling evidence for the idea that the universes
physical constants are fine tuned. However, several arguments
have been raised against this. Perhaps the most compelling is
the argument that there could very well be an infinite number
of other universes where the constants are different. Then
it is not surprising that we find ourselves in a universe with
the right combinations to permit the rise of life.
|
<sigh> Yet another variation of the 'puddle argument'.
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squealpiggy
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:31 pm Post subject: Re: The Laws of Physics Are Fine Tuned For life |
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On Jun 25, 1:34 am, "Danwood" <drw...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
The laws of physics (constants) are such as to permit the
rise of life. IOW the physical constants have been found
to be precisely tuned at the values that are necessary for
the rise, order and the sustaining of life. Is this just a series
of incrediable coincidence or is it the result of "fine tuning"?
There is compelling evidence for the idea that the universes
physical constants are fine tuned. However, several arguments
have been raised against this. Perhaps the most compelling is
the argument that there could very well be an infinite number
of other universes where the constants are different. Then
it is not surprising that we find ourselves in a universe with
the right combinations to permit the rise of life.
Danwood
|
99.99999999999% of the universe in uninhabitable.For something custom
designed for life to arise the designer did a remarkably poor job. |
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John Baker
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:09 am Post subject: Re: The Laws of Physics Are Fine Tuned For life |
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On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 08:08:21 -0400, "Danwood" <drwood@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
| Quote: |
"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in message
news:c21564dtbauk3oraethrtd11gt5lmtiv6i@4ax.com...
On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 01:34:51 -0400, "Danwood" <drwood@bellsouth.net
wrote:
The laws of physics (constants) are such as to permit the
rise of life. IOW the physical constants have been found
to be precisely tuned at the values that are necessary for
the rise, order and the sustaining of life. Is this just a series
of incrediable coincidence or is it the result of "fine tuning"?
There is compelling evidence for the idea that the universes
physical constants are fine tuned. However, several arguments
have been raised against this. Perhaps the most compelling is
the argument that there could very well be an infinite number
of other universes where the constants are different. Then
it is not surprising that we find ourselves in a universe with
the right combinations to permit the rise of life.
sigh> Yet another variation of the 'puddle argument'.
The Puddle argument is flawed.
|
And yours isn't?
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Thurisaz the Einherjer
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:57 am Post subject: Re: The Laws of Physics Are Fine Tuned For life |
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Where have you been your entire youth instead of attending school?
--
Romans 2:24 revised:
"For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you
cretinists, as it is written on aig."
My personal judgment of monotheism: http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus |
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harry k
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:12 am Post subject: Re: The Laws of Physics Are Fine Tuned For life |
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On Jun 25, 10:46 am, John Baker <nu...@bizniz.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 01:34:51 -0400, "Danwood" <drw...@bellsouth.net
wrote:
The laws of physics (constants) are such as to permit the
rise of life. IOW the physical constants have been found
to be precisely tuned at the values that are necessary for
the rise, order and the sustaining of life. Is this just a series
of incrediable coincidence or is it the result of "fine tuning"?
There is compelling evidence for the idea that the universes
physical constants are fine tuned. However, several arguments
have been raised against this. Perhaps the most compelling is
the argument that there could very well be an infinite number
of other universes where the constants are different. Then
it is not surprising that we find ourselves in a universe with
the right combinations to permit the rise of life.
sigh> Yet another variation of the 'puddle argument'.
Danwood- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
|
And one that has never been seen before....if one ignores about 1,000
times it has been debunked.
Harry K |
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harry k
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:14 am Post subject: Re: The Laws of Physics Are Fine Tuned For life |
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On Jun 25, 4:31 pm, squealpiggy <anthonyjwm...@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Jun 25, 1:34 am, "Danwood" <drw...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
The laws of physics (constants) are such as to permit the
rise of life. IOW the physical constants have been found
to be precisely tuned at the values that are necessary for
the rise, order and the sustaining of life. Is this just a series
of incrediable coincidence or is it the result of "fine tuning"?
There is compelling evidence for the idea that the universes
physical constants are fine tuned. However, several arguments
have been raised against this. Perhaps the most compelling is
the argument that there could very well be an infinite number
of other universes where the constants are different. Then
it is not surprising that we find ourselves in a universe with
the right combinations to permit the rise of life.
Danwood
99.99999999999% of the universe in uninhabitable.For something custom
designed for life to arise the designer did a remarkably poor job.
|
That is easily explained. It took him that many tries to get it right.
Harry K |
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