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Ramabriga
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 Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:15 pm Post subject: Group Plans to Send Letters to Troops in Iraq on How U.S. Go |
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Group Plans to Send Letters to Troops in Iraq on How U.S. Government Planned 9/11
Tuesday , June 10, 2008
FOX NEWS
U.S. troops serving in Iraq may be getting more letters during mail call, but they won't be
care packages — one group is sending them letters and DVDs claiming 9/11 was an “inside job”
and that they should rethink why they’re fighting.
Mark Dice, founder of The Resistance, which he calls a media watchdog group, says that the U.S.
government was responsible for the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and that the armed forces should
know it.
“People want the facts. The Marines are hungry for the truth — what got them there [in Iraq],
why are they risking their lives — and we’re going to help them understand that,” he told FOX News.
Dice plans to send letters and declassified government documents that he says can prove the
government’s responsibility for the terrorist attacks that killed nearly 3,000 people — and
he’s urging others to do the same.
But not everyone is thrilled that troops on the front lines may be bombarded by mail from Dice,
a conspiracy theorist who believes that Freemasons worship Satan and that “the United States
military has built enormous underground cities for the political elite.”
“These letters will end up in the toilet or on the firing range,” said Capt. Pete Hegseth,
executive director of Vets for Freedom and a veteran of the Iraq War. “They just laugh off this
kind of stuff.”
Hegseth told FOX News that American troops don’t need help from Dice to figure out why they’re
in Iraq.
“The fact of the matter is most soldiers and Marines understand why they’re fighting,” Hegseth
said. “These are volunteers who believe in their service — they believe in the mission they’ve
been sent to do.”
Dice told FOX News that he’s trying to help troops by giving a voice to people “afraid to speak
up out of fear of punishment” from their superiors.
“We’re trying to create a climate that’s safe for these people to ask real questions . . . so
we can get our boys back as soon as possible, safe and sound,” he said.
Dice says he is convinced that many servicemen share his views. “The Marines that I know say
that 20-25 percent of the Marines believe that 9/11 was an inside job and they’re very angry,”
he said.
Hegseth, however, wasn’t convinced. “We represent 24,000 veterans at Vets for Freedom,” he
said. “We believe in finishing this mission, we believe in what we’re doing and that’s how most
veterans and troops on the ground feel.”
Hegseth wasn’t worried that the troops would be deterred by the mailings. “I don’t think
they’re going to want to take the time to open the mail from some fringe political sect,” he
said. “They’re too busy winning the war in Iraq.”
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,365401,00.html
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** |
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Al Dykes
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:18 pm Post subject: Re: Group Plans to Send Letters to Troops in Iraq on How U.S |
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In article <355ec$485a77fa$28281@news.teranews.com>,
Ramabriga <Ramabriga@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Group Plans to Send Letters to Troops in Iraq on How U.S. Government Planned 9/11
Tuesday , June 10, 2008
FOX NEWS
U.S. troops serving in Iraq may be getting more letters during mail call, but they won't be
care packages — one group is sending them letters and DVDs claiming 9/11 was an “inside job”
and that they should rethink why they’re fighting.
Mark Dice, founder of The Resistance, which he calls a media watchdog group, says that the U.S.
government was responsible for the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and that the armed forces should
know it.
|
I bet that the Truth loons actually think that is good publicity for
their movement and the claim that 9/1 was an "INSIDE JOB", whatever
that means.
--
Al Dykes
News is something someone wants to suppress, everything else is advertising.
- Lord Northcliffe, publisher of the Daily Mail |
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mimus
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:10 pm Post subject: Re: Group Plans to Send Letters to Troops in Iraq on How U.S |
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On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:18:57 -0400, Al Dykes wrote:
| Quote: |
In article <355ec$485a77fa$28281@news.teranews.com>,
Ramabriga <Ramabriga@gmail.com> wrote:
Group Plans to Send Letters to Troops in Iraq on How U.S. Government
Planned 9/11
Tuesday , June 10, 2008
FOX NEWS
U.S. troops serving in Iraq may be getting more letters during mail
call, but they won't be care packages — one group is sending them
letters and DVDs claiming 9/11 was an “inside job” and that they
should rethink why theyÂ’re fighting.
Mark Dice, founder of The Resistance, which he calls a media watchdog
group, says that the U.S. government was responsible for the Sept. 11
terrorist attacks and that the armed forces should know it.
I bet that the Truth loons actually think that is good publicity for
their movement and the claim that 9/1 was an "INSIDE JOB", whatever that
means.
|
<cautiously>
Isn't that, like, tampering with the troops in time of war or something,
and, like, a crime or something?
Then again, I would've thought it would've been a crime or a tort or
something to show up at servicemen's funerals and mock their deaths (and
9/11) as God's punishment on America for toleration of homosexuality . . . .
--
Conservatism = plutocracy + theocracy + hypocrisy
Liberalism = plutocracy + psychosociocracy + hypocrisy |
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Anarchore
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:33 pm Post subject: Re: Group Plans to Send Letters to Troops in Iraq on How U.S |
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Al Dykes wrote:
| Quote: |
In article <355ec$485a77fa$28281@news.teranews.com>,
Ramabriga <Ramabriga@gmail.com> wrote:
Group Plans to Send Letters to Troops in Iraq on How U.S.
Government Planned 9/11
Tuesday , June 10, 2008
FOX NEWS
U.S. troops serving in Iraq may be getting more letters during mail
call, but they won't be care packages — one group is sending them
letters and DVDs claiming 9/11 was an “inside job” and that they
should rethink why they’re fighting.
Mark Dice, founder of The Resistance, which he calls a media
watchdog group, says that the U.S. government was responsible for
the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and that the armed forces should
know it.
I bet that the Truth loons actually think that is good publicity for
their movement and the claim that 9/1 was an "INSIDE JOB", whatever
that means.
|
Only if they have the facts right, and the soldiers read them. Very
few people believe the government once they explore the evidence. |
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Al Dykes
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:40 am Post subject: Re: Group Plans to Send Letters to Troops in Iraq on How U.S |
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In article <LMidndrTSsH8O8fVnZ2dnUVZ_vednZ2d@posted.uniservecommunications>,
Anarchore <e@t.me> wrote:
| Quote: |
Al Dykes wrote:
In article <355ec$485a77fa$28281@news.teranews.com>,
Ramabriga <Ramabriga@gmail.com> wrote:
Group Plans to Send Letters to Troops in Iraq on How U.S.
Government Planned 9/11
Tuesday , June 10, 2008
FOX NEWS
U.S. troops serving in Iraq may be getting more letters during mail
call, but they won't be care packages — one group is sending them
letters and DVDs claiming 9/11 was an “inside job” and that they
should rethink why they’re fighting.
Mark Dice, founder of The Resistance, which he calls a media
watchdog group, says that the U.S. government was responsible for
the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and that the armed forces should
know it.
I bet that the Truth loons actually think that is good publicity for
their movement and the claim that 9/1 was an "INSIDE JOB", whatever
that means.
Only if they have the facts right, and the soldiers read them. Very
few people believe the government once they explore the evidence.
|
None of which has nothing to do with the fact that 19 Islamists
hijacked 4 civilian jets and caused all the destruction on 9/11 and
that there was no man-made explosives or molten steel on the pile at
WTC.
--
Al Dykes
News is something someone wants to suppress, everything else is advertising.
- Lord Northcliffe, publisher of the Daily Mail |
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Anarchore
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:06 am Post subject: Re: Group Plans to Send Letters to Troops in Iraq on How U.S |
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Al Dykes wrote:
| Quote: |
In article
LMidndrTSsH8O8fVnZ2dnUVZ_vednZ2d@posted.uniservecommunications>,
Anarchore <e@t.me> wrote:
Al Dykes wrote:
In article <355ec$485a77fa$28281@news.teranews.com>,
Ramabriga <Ramabriga@gmail.com> wrote:
Group Plans to Send Letters to Troops in Iraq on How U.S.
Government Planned 9/11
Tuesday , June 10, 2008
FOX NEWS
U.S. troops serving in Iraq may be getting more letters during
mail call, but they won't be care packages — one group is
sending them letters and DVDs claiming 9/11 was an “inside job”
and that they should rethink why they’re fighting.
Mark Dice, founder of The Resistance, which he calls a media
watchdog group, says that the U.S. government was responsible
for the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and that the armed forces
should know it.
I bet that the Truth loons actually think that is good publicity
for their movement and the claim that 9/1 was an "INSIDE JOB",
whatever that means.
Only if they have the facts right, and the soldiers read them. Very
few people believe the government once they explore the evidence.
None of which has nothing to do with the fact that 19 Islamists
hijacked 4 civilian jets and caused all the destruction on 9/11
|
Of course it has nothing to do with it, that is not what happened. How
did they bring down WTC7 again? Was it falling 'debris'? LOL. |
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Al Dykes
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:40 am Post subject: Re: Group Plans to Send Letters to Troops in Iraq on How U.S |
|
|
In article <F4idnVVhGNs6n8bVnZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@posted.uniservecommunications>,
Anarchore <e@t.me> wrote:
| Quote: |
Al Dykes wrote:
In article
LMidndrTSsH8O8fVnZ2dnUVZ_vednZ2d@posted.uniservecommunications>,
Anarchore <e@t.me> wrote:
Al Dykes wrote:
In article <355ec$485a77fa$28281@news.teranews.com>,
Ramabriga <Ramabriga@gmail.com> wrote:
Group Plans to Send Letters to Troops in Iraq on How U.S.
Government Planned 9/11
Tuesday , June 10, 2008
FOX NEWS
U.S. troops serving in Iraq may be getting more letters during
mail call, but they won't be care packages — one group is
sending them letters and DVDs claiming 9/11 was an “inside job”
and that they should rethink why they’re fighting.
Mark Dice, founder of The Resistance, which he calls a media
watchdog group, says that the U.S. government was responsible
for the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and that the armed forces
should know it.
I bet that the Truth loons actually think that is good publicity
for their movement and the claim that 9/1 was an "INSIDE JOB",
whatever that means.
Only if they have the facts right, and the soldiers read them. Very
few people believe the government once they explore the evidence.
None of which has nothing to do with the fact that 19 Islamists
hijacked 4 civilian jets and caused all the destruction on 9/11
Of course it has nothing to do with it, that is not what happened. How
did they bring down WTC7 again? Was it falling 'debris'?
|
Yup.
FDNY Chief Haydem explains how they knew that WTC7 was beginning to
collapse as early ast 2:00PM.
FDNY Chief Hayden sighting it with a surveyor's transit: .. we
were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early
on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and
13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she
was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible
bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o'clock
in the afternoon, but by about 2 o'clock in the afternoon we
realized this thing was going to collapse.
http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/hayden.html
Document: The Collapse of Building 7 by Arthur Scheuerman December 8, .06
http://wtc.nist.gov/media/ScheuermanStatementDec2006.pdf
(good diagrams and pictures. )
Arthur Scheuerman, Battalion Chief FDNY (Retired), Former Deputy
Chief Instructor Nassau County Fire Training Academy and high-rise
Fire Safety Director
1. Statement of FDNY Chief Hayden
2. Statement of FDNY Chief Scheuerman
3. High School Physics for fall time of WTC7 with video of WTC7 to establish time.
4. Four Demolition experts say WTC collapse was caused by fire
5. Frame of WTC7 was unlike any other building & probably contributed to collapse
6. Evidence of no man-made demolition,
7. TV News showing WTC7 on fire and close to collapse on the afternoon of 9/11
7.1 Video of WTC7 on fire
8. Transcripts of all firemen and others. 100+ firemen say WTC7 collapse was caused by fire.
9. FDNY Chief Nigro explains the collapse of WTC7
10. Richard Gage and Prof. Jones have no relevant expertise for what tehy say about WTC.
11. No all-steel building was ever doused with gas, set on fire and allowed to burn.
12. Why some buildings near WTC collapsed and some didn't
13. Preventing Injuries and Deaths of Fire Fighters Due to Truss System Failures
14. BUILDING FIRE AND STRUCTURAL FAILURE (Steel buildings DO collapse because of fire)
15. WTC7 Interim report & other links
16. Fireproofing on WTC7 was sub-standard
17. FDNY Training - Including building collapse.
18. Participation of members of Structural Engineers Assoc of NY from early on 9/11.
19. Fire Dept training for Explosions in a steel bulding fire (Not WTC)
20. Video: BBC Early Report on WTC7 Collapse Explained (3 minutes)
[1] ----------------------------
FDNY Chief Haydem explains how they knew that WTC7 was beginning to
collapse as early ast 2:00PM.
FDNY Chief Hayden sighting it with a surveyor's transit: .. we
were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early
on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and
13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she
was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible
bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o'clock
in the afternoon, but by about 2 o'clock in the afternoon we
realized this thing was going to collapse.
http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/hayden.html
[2] --------------------------------------------------
The Collapse of Building 7 by Arthur Scheuerman December 8, .06
http://wtc.nist.gov/media/ScheuermanStatementDec2006.pdf
(good diagrams and pictures. )
Arthur Scheuerman, Battalion Chief FDNY (Retired), Former Deputy
Chief Instructor Nassau County Fire Training Academy and high-rise
Fire Safety Director
[3] ----------------------------
The WTC7 "fast as free-fall" crap is wrong by huge amounts. Free fall
for WTC7 (610 ft.) would be 6.17 seconds. WTC7 could be 2,000 ft high
for 11 seconds to be "free fall".
WTC7 was 610 ft tall.
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_World_Trade_Center
The final collapse of WTC7 was about 15 seconds by this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k6GMddY-lQ
Equations: http://www.school-for-champions.com/science/gravity_equations_falling.htm
[4]----------------------------
We have FOUR demolition experts that are on record saying that WTC was
not a man-made demoliiton job and will explain why they think that:
Ron Craig, Jowenko, and Loizeaux, and Blanchard.
There are no demolition experts that say that WTC was man-made
demolition.
In this video, demolition expert Jowenko explains why WTC 1, 2 and 7
were NOT demolition jobs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkZMQAC95kI&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkZMQAC95kI&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QajDxF9uEf4&mode=related&search=
http://jowenko.nl/
[5] ----------------------------
Nobody that is familiar with the structural frame of WTC7 thinks there
is anything about the collapse that requires man-made explosives,
Diagram http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3a/
Wtc7_transfer_trusses.png/180px-Wtc7_transfer_trusses.png
http://preview.tinyurl.com/2aftg3
[6]--------------------------
There is a massive amount of evidence that there was no man-made
demolition at WTC. WTC 1 and 2 were videotaped from all angles from
the moment of the first impact to the point of collapse. No video
shows any man-made demolition.
This video is all about man-made demolition. All sources and
documentation for the video is in the second link.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2873871255585611926
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/someonlinepapersandvideosbyme
No video exists that shows what every known man-made demolition shows.
[7] -----------------------------------
NBC TV news report showing WTC7 on fire and at risk of collapse.
This was broadcast at 4:48PM.
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=3859529288033431294
[7.1]
9/11/01 LIVE! News/Amateur Video World Trade Center Part 4
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DpAHh-yT25Q&feature=related
WTC7 on fire at 0:44
1:10
[7.2] More WTC7 fire vidoes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afb7eUHr64U&feature=related
[7.3] Even more WTC7 fire vidoes.
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/WTC7_Fire_Videos
[8]----------------------------
About 100 firemen state clearly that WTC7 was damages by on fire and
about to collapse beginning at about 2PM. Their names and full text
transcripts are online via the following links.
41 firemen mention severity of fire in WTC7
29 firemen mention damage to WTC7
104 firemen mention pullback from WTC7
36 firemen mention "Pull" to mean withdraw from the building
Summary spreadsheet names & statements: http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/WTC7_Eyewitnesses.xls
Full text transcripts for those names: http://preview.tinyurl.com/36rak3
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/html/
nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/met_WTC_histories_full_01.html
Lookup for a few non-fireman transcripts:
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=016182179862191393560%3Ahx2yxincxdu
[9] ----------------------------
FDNY Chief Nigro was in command at WTC on the afternoon of 9/11.
This is a message Chief Nigro addresses the conspiracy theories
surrounding the collapse of WTC7. Source:
http://911guide.googlepages.com/danielnigro
Chief of Department FDNY (ret.) Daniel Nigro Addresses Conspiracy Theories
Regarding WTC 7: The long-awaited US Government NIST (National
Institute of Standards and Technology) report on the collapse of
WTC 7 is due to be published at the end of this year (although it
has been delayed already a few times [ adding fuel to the
conspiracy theorists fires!]). That report should explain the
cause and mechanics of the collapse in great detail. Early on the
afternoon of September 11th 2001, following the collapse of WTC 1
& 2, I feared a collapse of WTC 7 (as did many on my staff).
The reasons are as follows:
1. Although prior to that day high-rise structures had never
collapsed, The collapse of WTC 1 & 2 showed that certain
high-rise structures subjected to damage from impact and
from fire will collapse.
2. The collapse of WTC 1 damaged portions of the lower floors of WTC 7.
3. WTC 7, we knew, was built on a small number of large columns
providing an open Atrium on the lower levels.
4. numerous fires on many floors of WTC 7 burned without
sufficient water supply to attack them.
For these reasons I made the decision (without consulting the
owner, the mayor or anyone else - as ranking fire officer, that
decision was my responsibility) to clear a collapse zone
surrounding the building and to stop all activity within that
zone. Approximately three hours after that order was given, WTC 7
collapsed.
Conspiracy theories abound and I believe firmly that all of them are without merit.
Regards, Dan Nigro
Chief of Department FDNY (retired)
[10] ----------------------------
NOBODY with relevant structural engineering or demolition expertise
thinks that there is anything strange about how WTC7 collapsed. None
of the people in AE911 that speak about WTC7 have this expertise.
That includes Jones and Gage.
Gage's Resume: http://members.shaw.ca/loudstudios/GageCV.pdf
Jones' resume http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/atomic/physics1/atomic/jones_cv.htm
Professor Jones nas vener released teh full lab results for his
claims.
[11] ----------------------------
No all-steel building in history was ever doused with thousands of
fuel, set afire and allowed to burn without any firefighting. WTC1,
2, and 7 were unique in that each was hit by tons of something, had
structural damage and had minimal fire-proofing, and had no
firefighting.
[12] -----------------------------------------------------------
Wounded Buildings Offer Survival Lessons (Dec 4, 2001)
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C00E4DF1F3DF937A35751C1A9679C8B63&scp=1&sq=&st=nyt
Illustration from article. http://tinyurl.com/ynjre3
Also: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=108006
When the south tower collapsed, said Mr. Trelstad, the engineer,
some of its huge columns fell and ripped out many of the steel
spandrels, or cross beams between windows, on the north facade of
90 West Street. One series of spandrels, from the 11th down to the
3rd floors on the east part of the facade, was destroyed as if a
giant claw had run down the front of the building.
...
He was first struck by the scale of the devastation and the
eeriness of the setting. Fires set by the south tower's debris had
gutted the 2nd, 3rd, 10th and 23rd floors, and much of the northern
portions of the 4th, 5th, 8th and 21st floors. At least two people
are believed to have died in the building, trapped in an elevator.
[13] ---------------------------------------------------
NIOSH Publication No. 2005-132:
Preventing Injuries and Deaths of Fire Fighters Due to Truss System Failures
All-steel trusses present their own hazards when exposed to fire. The
mass and surface area of steel truss components are factors that
determine time to failure. A heavy, thick section of steel has greater
resistance to fire than a lightweight section of the same length
because of the increased mass. A large, solid steel truss can absorb
heat and take longer to reach its failure temperature, whereas a
lightweight steel truss such as an open-web bar joist will be heated
to its failure temperature much faster. ...
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2005-132/
(see table D-1 http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2005-132/#ad )
[14] ------------
Title: A BUILDING FIRE AND STRUCTURAL FAILURE (Steel buildings DO collapse because of fire)
URL Source: http://www.mutualbox.com/a_building_fire_and_structural_f.htm
Published: Jul 6, 2006
When you enter a lightweight steel bar joist building on fire and you
hear popping, cracking, creaking and metal to metal rubbing together,
get out, the trusses are failing. It is not safe to enter for any
reason. At 205 West Jefferson Street Captain Patterson, Engine 108,
the first engine on the scene reported hearing popping sounds,
cracking sounds and things that just did not sound right. After moving
in about twenty feet attacking the fire, he wisely evacuated the
building. The roof collapsed shortly after they evacuated. All of
these sounds were steel I beams and trusses failing. At a recent
warehouse fire in Prince George.s County MD companies were operating
on the interior of the lightweight steel bar joist building. When
Volunteer Chief 33, Ricky Riley, arrived on the scene and radioed his
engine crew, he asked them, "what do you hear, do you hear anything",
the response from the company officer was "yes, there are popping
sounds" He ordered all interior companies to evacuate the
building. The roof collapsed approximetley ten minutes after
evacuation. Again, the sounds were the roof trusses failing.
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=148816
---
[15] --------------------------------------------------
Interim Report on WTC 7
http://wtc.nist.gov/progress_report_june04/appendixl.pdf
Links to other WTC7 reports
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_World_Trade_Center
---
[16] -----------------------------------------
Why the World Trade Center Buildings Collapsed A Fire Chief's Assessment
http://vincentdunn.com/wtc.html
---
[17] ----------------------------------
John Jay College teaches about stuture fires for NY firemen.
http://web.jjay.cuny.edu/~firesci/fire_science_faculty.htm
Glenn Corbett, professor of fire science at John Jay College of
Criminal Justice says the CD people are k00ks and explains why in this
20 minute interview.
http://www.wnyc.org/shows/bl/episodes/2007/09/14
FDNY Training - Including building collapse.
http://www.fdtraining.com/NewCourses.html
[18] --------------------------------
Many members of Structural Engineers Assoc of NY
reported to WTC early on 9/11 to supertvice investigation.
http://www.seaony.org/
Source: Book: _Nine Months at Ground Zero_ By Stout, Vitchers, & Gray
[19] -----------------------------
Explosions in a steel bulding fire (Not WTC)
"As Engine 15 turned up Liberty street Captain John Kahl could see
light smoke from the top floor of the Hurst Building. Captain Kahl
did not think he had much of a fire so he went to check the
automatic alarm box. The box indicated that there was fire in the
basement, so Captain Kahl had his crew force entry threw a glass
door on the German street side and entered the building with a 3/4
inch chemical line and 2 1/2 hand line. As the crew was standing
on the stairs to the basement they could see the fire rolling
across the ceiling towards the elevator shaft. It was not long
after Captain Kahl entered the building when a smoke explosion
occurred in the elevator shaft. The explosion was powerful enough
to blow off the roof , break several windows and also throw large
embers across the street into the broken windows of several
buildings. All the firefighters escaped with out injury"
What you have just read describeds what firemen call a smoke
explosion at a fire in Boston. This phenomenon occurs when a fire
creates a pocket of hot explosive gas in an enclosed area. The gas
comes from material in the area of the fire that is heated to the
point of giving off gas, but the area is not hot enough for
spontaneous combustion to occure. All it takes is a spark or the
inrush of oxygen rich air to make the gas ignite. Its similar to a
backdraft but in a backdraft the gas has space to expand and burn,
in a smoke explosion the enclosed space make the effect more
explosive in nature.
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2819408&postcount=477
[20] ----
BBC Early Report on WTC7 Collapse Explained
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zZrlNw-31R8
---
Don't respond with "people heard...." or "experts say.." unless you
have the names of those people. Lets see what they heard or saw.
Don't respond with a video of eyewitness claims. I want names and text
transcripts. That's what I give you and am prepared to give you more
of. There is video on Twoofer sites that has had explosion sounds
added to it.
Don't respond by changing the topic or making a counterclaim.
You can prove me wrong by posting a name with credentials and a
statement.
--
Al Dykes
News is something someone wants to suppress, everything else is advertising.
- Lord Northcliffe, publisher of the Daily Mail |
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Anarchore
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:27 am Post subject: Re: Group Plans to Send Letters to Troops in Iraq on How U.S |
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Al Dykes wrote:
| Quote: |
In article
F4idnVVhGNs6n8bVnZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@posted.uniservecommunications>,
Anarchore <e@t.me> wrote:
Al Dykes wrote:
In article
LMidndrTSsH8O8fVnZ2dnUVZ_vednZ2d@posted.uniservecommunications>,
Anarchore <e@t.me> wrote:
Al Dykes wrote:
In article <355ec$485a77fa$28281@news.teranews.com>,
Ramabriga <Ramabriga@gmail.com> wrote:
Group Plans to Send Letters to Troops in Iraq on How U.S.
Government Planned 9/11
Tuesday , June 10, 2008
FOX NEWS
U.S. troops serving in Iraq may be getting more letters
during mail call, but they won't be care packages — one
group is sending them letters and DVDs claiming 9/11 was an
“inside job” and that they should rethink why they’re
fighting.
Mark Dice, founder of The Resistance, which he calls a media
watchdog group, says that the U.S. government was
responsible for the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and that the
armed forces should know it.
I bet that the Truth loons actually think that is good
publicity for their movement and the claim that 9/1 was an
"INSIDE JOB", whatever that means.
Only if they have the facts right, and the soldiers read them.
Very few people believe the government once they explore the
evidence.
None of which has nothing to do with the fact that 19 Islamists
hijacked 4 civilian jets and caused all the destruction on 9/11
Of course it has nothing to do with it, that is not what happened.
How did they bring down WTC7 again? Was it falling 'debris'?
Yup.
FDNY Chief Haydem explains how they knew that WTC7 was beginning to
collapse as early ast 2:00PM.
FDNY Chief Hayden sighting it with a surveyor's transit: .. we
were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early
on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and
13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she
was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible
bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o'clock
in the afternoon, but by about 2 o'clock in the afternoon we
realized this thing was going to collapse.
|
So there's major damage from floors 10 -13, on *one* corner of the
building and then it later disintegrates from the bottom up into it's
own footprint in a manner that is familiar to anyone that has watched a
controlled demolition. Have you seen the demolition? How do you
explain the collapse from the bottom?
| Quote: |
http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/hayden.html
Document: The Collapse of Building 7 by Arthur Scheuerman December
8, .06 http://wtc.nist.gov/media/ScheuermanStatementDec2006.pdf
(good diagrams and pictures. )
Arthur Scheuerman, Battalion Chief FDNY (Retired), Former Deputy
Chief Instructor Nassau County Fire Training Academy and high-rise
Fire Safety Director
1. Statement of FDNY Chief Hayden
2. Statement of FDNY Chief Scheuerman
3. High School Physics for fall time of WTC7 with video of WTC7 to
establish time. 4. Four Demolition experts say WTC collapse was
caused by fire 5. Frame of WTC7 was unlike any other building &
probably contributed to collapse 6. Evidence of no man-made
demolition, 7. TV News showing WTC7 on fire and close to collapse on
the afternoon of 9/11 7.1 Video of WTC7 on fire
8. Transcripts of all firemen and others. 100+ firemen say WTC7
collapse was caused by fire. 9. FDNY Chief Nigro explains the
collapse of WTC7 10. Richard Gage and Prof. Jones have no relevant
expertise for what tehy say about WTC. 11. No all-steel building was
ever doused with gas, set on fire and allowed to burn. 12. Why some
buildings near WTC collapsed and some didn't 13. Preventing Injuries
and Deaths of Fire Fighters Due to Truss System Failures 14. BUILDING
FIRE AND STRUCTURAL FAILURE (Steel buildings DO collapse because of
fire) 15. WTC7 Interim report & other links 16. Fireproofing on WTC7
was sub-standard 17. FDNY Training - Including building collapse.
18. Participation of members of Structural Engineers Assoc of NY
from early on 9/11. 19. Fire Dept training for Explosions in a steel
bulding fire (Not WTC) 20. Video: BBC Early Report on WTC7 Collapse
Explained (3 minutes)
[1] ----------------------------
FDNY Chief Haydem explains how they knew that WTC7 was beginning to
collapse as early ast 2:00PM.
FDNY Chief Hayden sighting it with a surveyor's transit: .. we
were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early
on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and
13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she
was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible
bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o'clock
in the afternoon, but by about 2 o'clock in the afternoon we
realized this thing was going to collapse.
http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/hayden.html
[2] --------------------------------------------------
The Collapse of Building 7 by Arthur Scheuerman December 8, .06
http://wtc.nist.gov/media/ScheuermanStatementDec2006.pdf
(good diagrams and pictures. )
Arthur Scheuerman, Battalion Chief FDNY (Retired), Former Deputy
Chief Instructor Nassau County Fire Training Academy and high-rise
Fire Safety Director
[3] ----------------------------
The WTC7 "fast as free-fall" crap is wrong by huge amounts. Free fall
for WTC7 (610 ft.) would be 6.17 seconds. WTC7 could be 2,000 ft high
for 11 seconds to be "free fall".
WTC7 was 610 ft tall.
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_World_Trade_Center
The final collapse of WTC7 was about 15 seconds by this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k6GMddY-lQ
Equations:
http://www.school-for-champions.com/science/gravity_equations_falling.
htm
[4]----------------------------
We have FOUR demolition experts that are on record saying that WTC was
not a man-made demoliiton job and will explain why they think that:
Ron Craig, Jowenko, and Loizeaux, and Blanchard.
There are no demolition experts that say that WTC was man-made
demolition.
In this video, demolition expert Jowenko explains why WTC 1, 2 and 7
were NOT demolition jobs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkZMQAC95kI&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkZMQAC95kI&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QajDxF9uEf4&mode=related&search=
http://jowenko.nl/
[5] ----------------------------
Nobody that is familiar with the structural frame of WTC7 thinks there
is anything about the collapse that requires man-made explosives,
Diagram
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3a/
Wtc7_transfer_trusses.png/180px-Wtc7_transfer_trusses.png
http://preview.tinyurl.com/2aftg3
[6]--------------------------
There is a massive amount of evidence that there was no man-made
demolition at WTC. WTC 1 and 2 were videotaped from all angles from
the moment of the first impact to the point of collapse. No video
shows any man-made demolition.
This video is all about man-made demolition. All sources and
documentation for the video is in the second link.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2873871255585611926
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/someonlinepapersandvideosbyme
No video exists that shows what every known man-made demolition
shows.
[7] -----------------------------------
NBC TV news report showing WTC7 on fire and at risk of collapse.
This was broadcast at 4:48PM.
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=3859529288033431294
[7.1]
9/11/01 LIVE! News/Amateur Video World Trade Center Part 4
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DpAHh-yT25Q&feature=related
WTC7 on fire at 0:44
1:10
[7.2] More WTC7 fire vidoes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afb7eUHr64U&feature=related
[7.3] Even more WTC7 fire vidoes.
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/WTC7_Fire_Videos
[8]----------------------------
About 100 firemen state clearly that WTC7 was damages by on fire and
about to collapse beginning at about 2PM. Their names and full text
transcripts are online via the following links.
41 firemen mention severity of fire in WTC7
29 firemen mention damage to WTC7
104 firemen mention pullback from WTC7
36 firemen mention "Pull" to mean withdraw from the building
Summary spreadsheet names & statements:
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/WTC7_Eyewitnesses.xls Full text
transcripts for those names: http://preview.tinyurl.com/36rak3
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/html/
nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/met_WTC_histories_full_01.html
Lookup for a few non-fireman transcripts:
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=016182179862191393560%3Ahx2yxincxdu
[9] ----------------------------
FDNY Chief Nigro was in command at WTC on the afternoon of 9/11.
This is a message Chief Nigro addresses the conspiracy theories
surrounding the collapse of WTC7. Source:
http://911guide.googlepages.com/danielnigro
Chief of Department FDNY (ret.) Daniel Nigro Addresses
Conspiracy Theories
Regarding WTC 7: The long-awaited US Government NIST (National
Institute of Standards and Technology) report on the collapse of
WTC 7 is due to be published at the end of this year (although it
has been delayed already a few times [ adding fuel to the
conspiracy theorists fires!]). That report should explain the
cause and mechanics of the collapse in great detail. Early on the
afternoon of September 11th 2001, following the collapse of WTC 1
& 2, I feared a collapse of WTC 7 (as did many on my staff).
The reasons are as follows:
1. Although prior to that day high-rise structures had never
collapsed, The collapse of WTC 1 & 2 showed that certain
high-rise structures subjected to damage from impact and
from fire will collapse.
2. The collapse of WTC 1 damaged portions of the lower floors
of WTC 7.
3. WTC 7, we knew, was built on a small number of large columns
providing an open Atrium on the lower levels.
4. numerous fires on many floors of WTC 7 burned without
sufficient water supply to attack them.
For these reasons I made the decision (without consulting the
owner, the mayor or anyone else - as ranking fire officer, that
decision was my responsibility) to clear a collapse zone
surrounding the building and to stop all activity within that
zone. Approximately three hours after that order was given, WTC 7
collapsed.
Conspiracy theories abound and I believe firmly that all of them
are without merit.
Regards, Dan Nigro
Chief of Department FDNY (retired)
[10] ----------------------------
NOBODY with relevant structural engineering or demolition expertise
thinks that there is anything strange about how WTC7 collapsed. None
of the people in AE911 that speak about WTC7 have this expertise.
That includes Jones and Gage.
Gage's Resume: http://members.shaw.ca/loudstudios/GageCV.pdf
Jones' resume
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/atomic/physics1/atomic/jones_cv.ht
m
Professor Jones nas vener released teh full lab results for his
claims.
[11] ----------------------------
No all-steel building in history was ever doused with thousands of
fuel, set afire and allowed to burn without any firefighting. WTC1,
2, and 7 were unique in that each was hit by tons of something, had
structural damage and had minimal fire-proofing, and had no
firefighting.
[12] -----------------------------------------------------------
Wounded Buildings Offer Survival Lessons (Dec 4, 2001)
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C00E4DF1F3DF937A35751C
1A9679C8B63&scp=1&sq=&st=nyt Illustration from article.
http://tinyurl.com/ynjre3 Also:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=108006
When the south tower collapsed, said Mr. Trelstad, the engineer,
some of its huge columns fell and ripped out many of the steel
spandrels, or cross beams between windows, on the north facade of
90 West Street. One series of spandrels, from the 11th down to the
3rd floors on the east part of the facade, was destroyed as if a
giant claw had run down the front of the building.
...
He was first struck by the scale of the devastation and the
eeriness of the setting. Fires set by the south tower's debris had
gutted the 2nd, 3rd, 10th and 23rd floors, and much of the northern
portions of the 4th, 5th, 8th and 21st floors. At least two people
are believed to have died in the building, trapped in an elevator.
[13] ---------------------------------------------------
NIOSH Publication No. 2005-132:
Preventing Injuries and Deaths of Fire Fighters Due to Truss System
Failures
All-steel trusses present their own hazards when exposed to fire. The
mass and surface area of steel truss components are factors that
determine time to failure. A heavy, thick section of steel has greater
resistance to fire than a lightweight section of the same length
because of the increased mass. A large, solid steel truss can absorb
heat and take longer to reach its failure temperature, whereas a
lightweight steel truss such as an open-web bar joist will be heated
to its failure temperature much faster. ...
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2005-132/
(see table D-1 http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2005-132/#ad )
[14] ------------
Title: A BUILDING FIRE AND STRUCTURAL FAILURE (Steel buildings DO
collapse because of fire)
URL Source:
http://www.mutualbox.com/a_building_fire_and_structural_f.htm
Published: Jul 6, 2006
When you enter a lightweight steel bar joist building on fire and you
hear popping, cracking, creaking and metal to metal rubbing together,
get out, the trusses are failing. It is not safe to enter for any
reason. At 205 West Jefferson Street Captain Patterson, Engine 108,
the first engine on the scene reported hearing popping sounds,
cracking sounds and things that just did not sound right. After moving
in about twenty feet attacking the fire, he wisely evacuated the
building. The roof collapsed shortly after they evacuated. All of
these sounds were steel I beams and trusses failing. At a recent
warehouse fire in Prince George.s County MD companies were operating
on the interior of the lightweight steel bar joist building. When
Volunteer Chief 33, Ricky Riley, arrived on the scene and radioed his
engine crew, he asked them, "what do you hear, do you hear anything",
the response from the company officer was "yes, there are popping
sounds" He ordered all interior companies to evacuate the
building. The roof collapsed approximetley ten minutes after
evacuation. Again, the sounds were the roof trusses failing.
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=148816
---
[15] --------------------------------------------------
Interim Report on WTC 7
http://wtc.nist.gov/progress_report_june04/appendixl.pdf
Links to other WTC7 reports
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_World_Trade_Center
---
[16] -----------------------------------------
Why the World Trade Center Buildings Collapsed A Fire Chief's
Assessment http://vincentdunn.com/wtc.html
---
[17] ----------------------------------
John Jay College teaches about stuture fires for NY firemen.
http://web.jjay.cuny.edu/~firesci/fire_science_faculty.htm
Glenn Corbett, professor of fire science at John Jay College of
Criminal Justice says the CD people are k00ks and explains why in this
20 minute interview.
http://www.wnyc.org/shows/bl/episodes/2007/09/14
FDNY Training - Including building collapse.
http://www.fdtraining.com/NewCourses.html
[18] --------------------------------
Many members of Structural Engineers Assoc of NY
reported to WTC early on 9/11 to supertvice investigation.
http://www.seaony.org/
Source: Book: _Nine Months at Ground Zero_ By Stout,
Vitchers, & Gray
[19] -----------------------------
Explosions in a steel bulding fire (Not WTC)
"As Engine 15 turned up Liberty street Captain John Kahl could see
light smoke from the top floor of the Hurst Building. Captain Kahl
did not think he had much of a fire so he went to check the
automatic alarm box. The box indicated that there was fire in the
basement, so Captain Kahl had his crew force entry threw a glass
door on the German street side and entered the building with a 3/4
inch chemical line and 2 1/2 hand line. As the crew was standing
on the stairs to the basement they could see the fire rolling
across the ceiling towards the elevator shaft. It was not long
after Captain Kahl entered the building when a smoke explosion
occurred in the elevator shaft. The explosion was powerful enough
to blow off the roof , break several windows and also throw large
embers across the street into the broken windows of several
buildings. All the firefighters escaped with out injury"
What you have just read describeds what firemen call a smoke
explosion at a fire in Boston. This phenomenon occurs when a fire
creates a pocket of hot explosive gas in an enclosed area. The gas
comes from material in the area of the fire that is heated to the
point of giving off gas, but the area is not hot enough for
spontaneous combustion to occure. All it takes is a spark or the
inrush of oxygen rich air to make the gas ignite. Its similar to a
backdraft but in a backdraft the gas has space to expand and burn,
in a smoke explosion the enclosed space make the effect more
explosive in nature.
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2819408&postcount=477
[20] ----
BBC Early Report on WTC7 Collapse Explained
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zZrlNw-31R8
---
Don't respond with "people heard...." or "experts say.." unless you
have the names of those people. Lets see what they heard or saw.
Don't respond with a video of eyewitness claims. I want names and text
transcripts. That's what I give you and am prepared to give you more
of. There is video on Twoofer sites that has had explosion sounds
added to it.
Don't respond by changing the topic or making a counterclaim.
You can prove me wrong by posting a name with credentials and a
statement.
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tankfixer
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:28 am Post subject: Re: Group Plans to Send Letters to Troops in Iraq on How U.S |
|
|
In article <weCdneyQjrqLDsfVnZ2dnUVZ_qXinZ2d@giganews.com>, tinmimus99
@hotmail.com says...
| Quote: |
On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:18:57 -0400, Al Dykes wrote:
In article <355ec$485a77fa$28281@news.teranews.com>,
Ramabriga <Ramabriga@gmail.com> wrote:
Group Plans to Send Letters to Troops in Iraq on How U.S. Government
Planned 9/11
Tuesday , June 10, 2008
FOX NEWS
U.S. troops serving in Iraq may be getting more letters during mail
call, but they won't be care packages ? one group is sending them
letters and DVDs claiming 9/11 was an ?inside job? and that they
should rethink why they?re fighting.
Mark Dice, founder of The Resistance, which he calls a media watchdog
group, says that the U.S. government was responsible for the Sept. 11
terrorist attacks and that the armed forces should know it.
I bet that the Truth loons actually think that is good publicity for
their movement and the claim that 9/1 was an "INSIDE JOB", whatever that
means.
cautiously
Isn't that, like, tampering with the troops in time of war or something,
and, like, a crime or something?
|
Unless the fools who intend to send these letter can get actual
addresses of solders deployed the letters will go nowhere...
| Quote: |
Then again, I would've thought it would've been a crime or a tort or
something to show up at servicemen's funerals and mock their deaths (and
9/11) as God's punishment on America for toleration of homosexuality . . . .
|
Why do I suspect the hero's wanting to mail these out will forget to
include a return address...
--
"Oh Norman, listen! The loons are calling!"
- Katherine Hepburn, "On Golden Pond" |
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tankfixer
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:29 am Post subject: Re: Group Plans to Send Letters to Troops in Iraq on How U.S |
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In article <mIidnVmAfPBg-
8HVnZ2dnUVZ_tbinZ2d@posted.uniservecommunications>, e@t.me says...
| Quote: |
How do you explain the collapse from the bottom?
|
How do you explain it ?
Please use the facts not silly theories
--
"Oh Norman, listen! The loons are calling!"
- Katherine Hepburn, "On Golden Pond" |
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johannes
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:05 am Post subject: Re: Group Plans to Send Letters to Troops in Iraq on How U.S |
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tankfixer wrote:
Ground movements following the collapse of WTC. |
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tankfixer
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:54 am Post subject: Re: Group Plans to Send Letters to Troops in Iraq on How U.S |
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In article <485EDAA0.EF6A4872@size464677743285fitter.com>,
johs@size464677743285fitter.com says...
How does that prove anything other than the fact the buildings fell
down?
--
"Oh Norman, listen! The loons are calling!"
- Katherine Hepburn, "On Golden Pond" |
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Al Dykes
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:56 am Post subject: Re: Group Plans to Send Letters to Troops in Iraq on How U.S |
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In article <485EDAA0.EF6A4872@size464677743285fitter.com>,
johannes <johs@size464677743285fitter.com> wrote:
There was no ground movement recorded on the afternoon of 9/11 until
WTC7 hit the ground. That's kind of late to be called explosive
demolition.
--
Al Dykes
News is something someone wants to suppress, everything else is advertising.
- Lord Northcliffe, publisher of the Daily Mail |
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mimus
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:55 am Post subject: Re: Group Plans to Send Letters to Troops in Iraq on How U.S |
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On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 15:29:40 -0700, tankfixer wrote:
It's obvious that a building collapsing straight down with stuff
squirting out of the windows along the way is suspicious, right?
--
What about yer _second_ smart theory?
< _Deadbone_ |
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tankfixer
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:05 am Post subject: Re: Group Plans to Send Letters to Troops in Iraq on How U.S |
|
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In article <HJOdnT82_r7wn8LVnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@giganews.com>, tinmimus99
@hotmail.com says...
| Quote: |
On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 15:29:40 -0700, tankfixer wrote:
In article <mIidnVmAfPBg-
8HVnZ2dnUVZ_tbinZ2d@posted.uniservecommunications>, e@t.me says...
How do you explain the collapse from the bottom?
How do you explain it ?
Please use the facts not silly theories
It's obvious that a building collapsing straight down with stuff
squirting out of the windows along the way is suspicious, right?
|
Funny what air does when compressed.
--
"Oh Norman, listen! The loons are calling!"
- Katherine Hepburn, "On Golden Pond" |
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