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Ramabriga
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 Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:08 pm Post subject: Re: WTC 7 Foreknowledge |
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On Jun 19, 7:08 am, Ramabriga <Ramabr...@gmail.com> wrote:
BBC reporting that WTC7 had collapsed 20 minutes before it happened..
is very unsettling.
Mui Mysterioso.. as they say. |
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:08 pm Post subject: Re: WTC 7 Foreknowledge |
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On Jun 19, 8:25 am, ady...@panix.com (Al Dykes) wrote:
| Quote: |
In article <8a94bfc2-054f-4a9a-a753-e2abe4428...@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
<lorad...@cs.com> wrote:
On Jun 19, 7:08=A0am, Ramabriga <Ramabr...@gmail.com> wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DN1LetB0z8_o
** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**
BBC reporting that WTC7 had collapsed 20 minutes before it happened..
is very unsettling.
Everyone that had a police scanner knew that WTC7 was going to
collapse due to damage and fire.
|
Sorry.. didn't realize:
1) That BBC had a time machine - or even a 'everbody (unsubstantiated)
knows' police scanner.
-or-
2) Larry (blood-sucker) Silverstein's "Pull it" didn't have anything
to do with WTC7 coming down. |
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Al Dykes
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: WTC 7 Foreknowledge |
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In article <c07d9$485a6834$8998@news.teranews.com>,
Ramabriga <Ramabriga@gmail.com> wrote:
100+ firemen said they knew WTC7 was going to collapse due to fire and
damage, names and quotes, here: [8] It was all over the TV news on the
afternoon. We have the video. [7]
Engineers working for the fire chief measured a shift in the towere as
early as 2PM. [1]
Are they lying?
1. Statement of FDNY Chief Hayden
2. Statement of FDNY Chief Scheuerman
3. High School Physics for fall time of WTC7 with video of WTC7 to establish time.
4. Four Demolition experts say WTC collapse was caused by fire
5. Frame of WTC7 was unlike any other building & probably contributed to collapse
6. Evidence of no man-made demolition,
7. TV News showing WTC7 on fire and close to collapse on the afternoon of 9/11
7.1 Video of WTC7 on fire
8. Transcripts of all firemen and others. 100+ firemen say WTC7 collapse was caused by fire.
9. FDNY Chief Nigro explains the collapse of WTC7
10. Richard Gage and Prof. Jones have no relevant expertise for what tehy say about WTC.
11. No all-steel building was ever doused with gas, set on fire and allowed to burn.
12. Why some buildings near WTC collapsed and some didn't
13. Preventing Injuries and Deaths of Fire Fighters Due to Truss System Failures
14. BUILDING FIRE AND STRUCTURAL FAILURE (Steel buildings DO collapse because of fire)
15. WTC7 Interim report & other links
16. Fireproofing on WTC7 was sub-standard
17. FDNY Training - Including building collapse.
18. Participation of members of Structural Engineers Assoc of NY from early on 9/11.
19. Fire Dept training for Explosions in a steel bulding fire (Not WTC)
20. Video: BBC Early Report on WTC7 Collapse Explained (3 minutes)
[1] ----------------------------
FDNY Chief Haydem explains how they knew that WTC7 was beginning to
collapse as early ast 2:00PM.
FDNY Chief Hayden sighting it with a surveyor's transit: .. we
were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early
on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and
13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she
was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible
bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o'clock
in the afternoon, but by about 2 o'clock in the afternoon we
realized this thing was going to collapse.
http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/hayden.html
[2] --------------------------------------------------
The Collapse of Building 7 by Arthur Scheuerman December 8, .06
http://wtc.nist.gov/media/ScheuermanStatementDec2006.pdf
(good diagrams and pictures. )
Arthur Scheuerman, Battalion Chief FDNY (Retired), Former Deputy
Chief Instructor Nassau County Fire Training Academy and high-rise
Fire Safety Director
[3] ----------------------------
The WTC7 "fast as free-fall" crap is wrong by huge amounts. Free fall
for WTC7 (610 ft.) would be 6.17 seconds. WTC7 could be 2,000 ft high
for 11 seconds to be "free fall".
WTC7 was 610 ft tall.
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_World_Trade_Center
The final collapse of WTC7 was about 15 seconds by this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k6GMddY-lQ
Equations: http://www.school-for-champions.com/science/gravity_equations_falling.htm
[4]----------------------------
We have FOUR demolition experts that are on record saying that WTC was
not a man-made demoliiton job and will explain why they think that:
Ron Craig, Jowenko, and Loizeaux, and Blanchard.
There are no demolition experts that say that WTC was man-made
demolition.
In this video, demolition expert Jowenko explains why WTC 1, 2 and 7
were NOT demolition jobs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkZMQAC95kI&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkZMQAC95kI&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QajDxF9uEf4&mode=related&search=
http://jowenko.nl/
[5] ----------------------------
Nobody that is familiar with the structural frame of WTC7 thinks there
is anything about the collapse that requires man-made explosives,
Diagram http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3a/
Wtc7_transfer_trusses.png/180px-Wtc7_transfer_trusses.png
http://preview.tinyurl.com/2aftg3
[6]--------------------------
There is a massive amount of evidence that there was no man-made
demolition at WTC. WTC 1 and 2 were videotaped from all angles from
the moment of the first impact to the point of collapse. No video
shows any man-made demolition.
This video is all about man-made demolition. All sources and
documentation for the video is in the second link.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2873871255585611926
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/someonlinepapersandvideosbyme
No video exists that shows what every known man-made demolition shows.
[7] -----------------------------------
NBC TV news report showing WTC7 on fire and at risk of collapse.
This was broadcast at 4:48PM.
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=3859529288033431294
[7.1]
9/11/01 LIVE! News/Amateur Video World Trade Center Part 4
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DpAHh-yT25Q&feature=related
WTC7 on fire at 0:44
1:10
[7.2] More WTC7 fire vidoes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afb7eUHr64U&feature=related
[7.3] Even more WTC7 fire vidoes.
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/WTC7_Fire_Videos
[8]----------------------------
About 100 firemen state clearly that WTC7 was damages by on fire and
about to collapse beginning at about 2PM. Their names and full text
transcripts are online via the following links.
41 firemen mention severity of fire in WTC7
29 firemen mention damage to WTC7
104 firemen mention pullback from WTC7
36 firemen mention "Pull" to mean withdraw from the building
Summary spreadsheet names & statements: http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/WTC7_Eyewitnesses.xls
Full text transcripts for those names: http://preview.tinyurl.com/36rak3
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/html/
nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/met_WTC_histories_full_01.html
Lookup for a few non-fireman transcripts:
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=016182179862191393560%3Ahx2yxincxdu
[9] ----------------------------
FDNY Chief Nigro was in command at WTC on the afternoon of 9/11.
This is a message Chief Nigro addresses the conspiracy theories
surrounding the collapse of WTC7. Source:
http://911guide.googlepages.com/danielnigro
Chief of Department FDNY (ret.) Daniel Nigro Addresses Conspiracy Theories
Regarding WTC 7: The long-awaited US Government NIST (National
Institute of Standards and Technology) report on the collapse of
WTC 7 is due to be published at the end of this year (although it
has been delayed already a few times [ adding fuel to the
conspiracy theorists fires!]). That report should explain the
cause and mechanics of the collapse in great detail. Early on the
afternoon of September 11th 2001, following the collapse of WTC 1
& 2, I feared a collapse of WTC 7 (as did many on my staff).
The reasons are as follows:
1. Although prior to that day high-rise structures had never
collapsed, The collapse of WTC 1 & 2 showed that certain
high-rise structures subjected to damage from impact and
from fire will collapse.
2. The collapse of WTC 1 damaged portions of the lower floors of WTC 7.
3. WTC 7, we knew, was built on a small number of large columns
providing an open Atrium on the lower levels.
4. numerous fires on many floors of WTC 7 burned without
sufficient water supply to attack them.
For these reasons I made the decision (without consulting the
owner, the mayor or anyone else - as ranking fire officer, that
decision was my responsibility) to clear a collapse zone
surrounding the building and to stop all activity within that
zone. Approximately three hours after that order was given, WTC 7
collapsed.
Conspiracy theories abound and I believe firmly that all of them are without merit.
Regards, Dan Nigro
Chief of Department FDNY (retired)
[10] ----------------------------
NOBODY with relevant structural engineering or demolition expertise
thinks that there is anything strange about how WTC7 collapsed. None
of the people in AE911 that speak about WTC7 have this expertise.
That includes Jones and Gage.
Gage's Resume: http://members.shaw.ca/loudstudios/GageCV.pdf
Jones' resume http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/atomic/physics1/atomic/jones_cv.htm
Professor Jones nas vener released teh full lab results for his
claims.
[11] ----------------------------
No all-steel building in history was ever doused with thousands of
fuel, set afire and allowed to burn without any firefighting. WTC1,
2, and 7 were unique in that each was hit by tons of something, had
structural damage and had minimal fire-proofing, and had no
firefighting.
[12] -----------------------------------------------------------
Wounded Buildings Offer Survival Lessons (Dec 4, 2001)
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C00E4DF1F3DF937A35751C1A9679C8B63&scp=1&sq=&st=nyt
Illustration from article. http://tinyurl.com/ynjre3
Also: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=108006
When the south tower collapsed, said Mr. Trelstad, the engineer,
some of its huge columns fell and ripped out many of the steel
spandrels, or cross beams between windows, on the north facade of
90 West Street. One series of spandrels, from the 11th down to the
3rd floors on the east part of the facade, was destroyed as if a
giant claw had run down the front of the building.
...
He was first struck by the scale of the devastation and the
eeriness of the setting. Fires set by the south tower's debris had
gutted the 2nd, 3rd, 10th and 23rd floors, and much of the northern
portions of the 4th, 5th, 8th and 21st floors. At least two people
are believed to have died in the building, trapped in an elevator.
[13] ---------------------------------------------------
NIOSH Publication No. 2005-132:
Preventing Injuries and Deaths of Fire Fighters Due to Truss System Failures
All-steel trusses present their own hazards when exposed to fire. The
mass and surface area of steel truss components are factors that
determine time to failure. A heavy, thick section of steel has greater
resistance to fire than a lightweight section of the same length
because of the increased mass. A large, solid steel truss can absorb
heat and take longer to reach its failure temperature, whereas a
lightweight steel truss such as an open-web bar joist will be heated
to its failure temperature much faster. ...
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2005-132/
(see table D-1 http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2005-132/#ad )
[14] ------------
Title: A BUILDING FIRE AND STRUCTURAL FAILURE (Steel buildings DO collapse because of fire)
URL Source: http://www.mutualbox.com/a_building_fire_and_structural_f.htm
Published: Jul 6, 2006
When you enter a lightweight steel bar joist building on fire and you
hear popping, cracking, creaking and metal to metal rubbing together,
get out, the trusses are failing. It is not safe to enter for any
reason. At 205 West Jefferson Street Captain Patterson, Engine 108,
the first engine on the scene reported hearing popping sounds,
cracking sounds and things that just did not sound right. After moving
in about twenty feet attacking the fire, he wisely evacuated the
building. The roof collapsed shortly after they evacuated. All of
these sounds were steel I beams and trusses failing. At a recent
warehouse fire in Prince George.s County MD companies were operating
on the interior of the lightweight steel bar joist building. When
Volunteer Chief 33, Ricky Riley, arrived on the scene and radioed his
engine crew, he asked them, "what do you hear, do you hear anything",
the response from the company officer was "yes, there are popping
sounds" He ordered all interior companies to evacuate the
building. The roof collapsed approximetley ten minutes after
evacuation. Again, the sounds were the roof trusses failing.
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=148816
---
[15] --------------------------------------------------
Interim Report on WTC 7
http://wtc.nist.gov/progress_report_june04/appendixl.pdf
Links to other WTC7 reports
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_World_Trade_Center
---
[16] -----------------------------------------
Why the World Trade Center Buildings Collapsed A Fire Chief's Assessment
http://vincentdunn.com/wtc.html
---
[17] ----------------------------------
John Jay College teaches about stuture fires for NY firemen.
http://web.jjay.cuny.edu/~firesci/fire_science_faculty.htm
Glenn Corbett, professor of fire science at John Jay College of
Criminal Justice says the CD people are k00ks and explains why in this
20 minute interview.
http://www.wnyc.org/shows/bl/episodes/2007/09/14
FDNY Training - Including building collapse.
http://www.fdtraining.com/NewCourses.html
[18] --------------------------------
Many members of Structural Engineers Assoc of NY
reported to WTC early on 9/11 to supertvice investigation.
http://www.seaony.org/
Source: Book: _Nine Months at Ground Zero_ By Stout, Vitchers, & Gray
[19] -----------------------------
Explosions in a steel bulding fire (Not WTC)
"As Engine 15 turned up Liberty street Captain John Kahl could see
light smoke from the top floor of the Hurst Building. Captain Kahl
did not think he had much of a fire so he went to check the
automatic alarm box. The box indicated that there was fire in the
basement, so Captain Kahl had his crew force entry threw a glass
door on the German street side and entered the building with a 3/4
inch chemical line and 2 1/2 hand line. As the crew was standing
on the stairs to the basement they could see the fire rolling
across the ceiling towards the elevator shaft. It was not long
after Captain Kahl entered the building when a smoke explosion
occurred in the elevator shaft. The explosion was powerful enough
to blow off the roof , break several windows and also throw large
embers across the street into the broken windows of several
buildings. All the firefighters escaped with out injury"
What you have just read describeds what firemen call a smoke
explosion at a fire in Boston. This phenomenon occurs when a fire
creates a pocket of hot explosive gas in an enclosed area. The gas
comes from material in the area of the fire that is heated to the
point of giving off gas, but the area is not hot enough for
spontaneous combustion to occure. All it takes is a spark or the
inrush of oxygen rich air to make the gas ignite. Its similar to a
backdraft but in a backdraft the gas has space to expand and burn,
in a smoke explosion the enclosed space make the effect more
explosive in nature.
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2819408&postcount=477
[20] ----
BBC Early Report on WTC7 Collapse Explained
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zZrlNw-31R8
---
Don't respond with "people heard...." or "experts say.." unless you
have the names of those people. Lets see what they heard or saw.
Don't respond with a video of eyewitness claims. I want names and text
transcripts. That's what I give you and am prepared to give you more
of. There is video on Twoofer sites that has had explosion sounds
added to it.
Don't respond by changing the topic or making a counterclaim.
You can prove me wrong by posting a name with credentials and a
statement.
--
Al Dykes
News is something someone wants to suppress, everything else is advertising.
- Lord Northcliffe, publisher of the Daily Mail |
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Al Dykes
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: WTC 7 Foreknowledge |
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In article <8a94bfc2-054f-4a9a-a753-e2abe4428248@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
<lorad474@cs.com> wrote:
Everyone that had a police scanner knew that WTC7 was going to
collapse due to damage and fire.
--
Al Dykes
News is something someone wants to suppress, everything else is advertising.
- Lord Northcliffe, publisher of the Daily Mail |
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Al Dykes
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:22 pm Post subject: Re: WTC 7 Foreknowledge |
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In article <8f8467a9-4063-4fbe-b502-356fbe40562c@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
<lorad474@cs.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Jun 19, 8:25=A0am, ady...@panix.com (Al Dykes) wrote:
In article <8a94bfc2-054f-4a9a-a753-e2abe4428...@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.=
com>,
=A0<lorad...@cs.com> wrote:
On Jun 19, 7:08=3DA0am, Ramabriga <Ramabr...@gmail.com> wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D3DN1LetB0z8_o
** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**
BBC reporting that WTC7 had collapsed 20 minutes before it happened..
is very unsettling.
Everyone that had a police scanner knew that WTC7 was going to
collapse due to damage and fire.
Sorry.. didn't realize:
1) That BBC had a time machine - or even a 'everbody (unsubstantiated)
knows' police scanner.
|
Some BBC news reader who wasn't looking at the monitor made a mistake
by saying "fell" instead of "will fall". By 4:30 all the news media
were predicting the collapse of WTC7. Big deal. OIt "proves" nothing.
See video, below.
Silverstien didn't have anything to do with the decision to to
evacuate WTC7 and cease the firefighting. FDNY commander on the
scene, Chief Nigro takes complete responsibility. See [9], below.
Is he lying?
In the testimony below, are Chief Haydon, [1] Chief Nigro [9], Chief
Scheuerman, [2] and more than 100 firemen [8] lying when they say that
WTC7 was damaged and collapsed due to fire?
Are they lying?
1. Statement of FDNY Chief Hayden
2. Statement of FDNY Chief Scheuerman
3. High School Physics for fall time of WTC7 with video of WTC7 to establish time.
4. Four Demolition experts say WTC collapse was caused by fire
5. Frame of WTC7 was unlike any other building & probably contributed to collapse
6. Evidence of no man-made demolition,
7. TV News showing WTC7 on fire and close to collapse on the afternoon of 9/11
7.1 Video of WTC7 on fire
8. Transcripts of all firemen and others. 100+ firemen say WTC7 collapse was caused by fire.
9. FDNY Chief Nigro explains the collapse of WTC7
10. Richard Gage and Prof. Jones have no relevant expertise for what tehy say about WTC.
11. No all-steel building was ever doused with gas, set on fire and allowed to burn.
12. Why some buildings near WTC collapsed and some didn't
13. Preventing Injuries and Deaths of Fire Fighters Due to Truss System Failures
14. BUILDING FIRE AND STRUCTURAL FAILURE (Steel buildings DO collapse because of fire)
15. WTC7 Interim report & other links
16. Fireproofing on WTC7 was sub-standard
17. FDNY Training - Including building collapse.
18. Participation of members of Structural Engineers Assoc of NY from early on 9/11.
19. Fire Dept training for Explosions in a steel bulding fire (Not WTC)
20. Video: BBC Early Report on WTC7 Collapse Explained (3 minutes)
[1] ----------------------------
FDNY Chief Haydem explains how they knew that WTC7 was beginning to
collapse as early ast 2:00PM.
FDNY Chief Hayden sighting it with a surveyor's transit: .. we
were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early
on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and
13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she
was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible
bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o'clock
in the afternoon, but by about 2 o'clock in the afternoon we
realized this thing was going to collapse.
http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/hayden.html
[2] --------------------------------------------------
The Collapse of Building 7 by Arthur Scheuerman December 8, .06
http://wtc.nist.gov/media/ScheuermanStatementDec2006.pdf
(good diagrams and pictures. )
Arthur Scheuerman, Battalion Chief FDNY (Retired), Former Deputy
Chief Instructor Nassau County Fire Training Academy and high-rise
Fire Safety Director
[3] ----------------------------
The WTC7 "fast as free-fall" crap is wrong by huge amounts. Free fall
for WTC7 (610 ft.) would be 6.17 seconds. WTC7 could be 2,000 ft high
for 11 seconds to be "free fall".
WTC7 was 610 ft tall.
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_World_Trade_Center
The final collapse of WTC7 was about 15 seconds by this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k6GMddY-lQ
Equations: http://www.school-for-champions.com/science/gravity_equations_falling.htm
[4]----------------------------
We have FOUR demolition experts that are on record saying that WTC was
not a man-made demoliiton job and will explain why they think that:
Ron Craig, Jowenko, and Loizeaux, and Blanchard.
There are no demolition experts that say that WTC was man-made
demolition.
In this video, demolition expert Jowenko explains why WTC 1, 2 and 7
were NOT demolition jobs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkZMQAC95kI&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkZMQAC95kI&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QajDxF9uEf4&mode=related&search=
http://jowenko.nl/
[5] ----------------------------
Nobody that is familiar with the structural frame of WTC7 thinks there
is anything about the collapse that requires man-made explosives,
Diagram http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3a/
Wtc7_transfer_trusses.png/180px-Wtc7_transfer_trusses.png
http://preview.tinyurl.com/2aftg3
[6]--------------------------
There is a massive amount of evidence that there was no man-made
demolition at WTC. WTC 1 and 2 were videotaped from all angles from
the moment of the first impact to the point of collapse. No video
shows any man-made demolition.
This video is all about man-made demolition. All sources and
documentation for the video is in the second link.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2873871255585611926
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/someonlinepapersandvideosbyme
No video exists that shows what every known man-made demolition shows.
[7] -----------------------------------
NBC TV news report showing WTC7 on fire and at risk of collapse.
This was broadcast at 4:48PM.
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=3859529288033431294
[7.1]
9/11/01 LIVE! News/Amateur Video World Trade Center Part 4
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DpAHh-yT25Q&feature=related
WTC7 on fire at 0:44
1:10
[7.2] More WTC7 fire vidoes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afb7eUHr64U&feature=related
[7.3] Even more WTC7 fire vidoes.
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/WTC7_Fire_Videos
[8]----------------------------
About 100 firemen state clearly that WTC7 was damages by on fire and
about to collapse beginning at about 2PM. Their names and full text
transcripts are online via the following links.
41 firemen mention severity of fire in WTC7
29 firemen mention damage to WTC7
104 firemen mention pullback from WTC7
36 firemen mention "Pull" to mean withdraw from the building
Summary spreadsheet names & statements: http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/WTC7_Eyewitnesses.xls
Full text transcripts for those names: http://preview.tinyurl.com/36rak3
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/html/
nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/met_WTC_histories_full_01.html
Lookup for a few non-fireman transcripts:
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=016182179862191393560%3Ahx2yxincxdu
[9] ----------------------------
FDNY Chief Nigro was in command at WTC on the afternoon of 9/11.
This is a message Chief Nigro addresses the conspiracy theories
surrounding the collapse of WTC7. Source:
http://911guide.googlepages.com/danielnigro
Chief of Department FDNY (ret.) Daniel Nigro Addresses Conspiracy Theories
Regarding WTC 7: The long-awaited US Government NIST (National
Institute of Standards and Technology) report on the collapse of
WTC 7 is due to be published at the end of this year (although it
has been delayed already a few times [ adding fuel to the
conspiracy theorists fires!]). That report should explain the
cause and mechanics of the collapse in great detail. Early on the
afternoon of September 11th 2001, following the collapse of WTC 1
& 2, I feared a collapse of WTC 7 (as did many on my staff).
The reasons are as follows:
1. Although prior to that day high-rise structures had never
collapsed, The collapse of WTC 1 & 2 showed that certain
high-rise structures subjected to damage from impact and
from fire will collapse.
2. The collapse of WTC 1 damaged portions of the lower floors of WTC 7.
3. WTC 7, we knew, was built on a small number of large columns
providing an open Atrium on the lower levels.
4. numerous fires on many floors of WTC 7 burned without
sufficient water supply to attack them.
For these reasons I made the decision (without consulting the
owner, the mayor or anyone else - as ranking fire officer, that
decision was my responsibility) to clear a collapse zone
surrounding the building and to stop all activity within that
zone. Approximately three hours after that order was given, WTC 7
collapsed.
Conspiracy theories abound and I believe firmly that all of them are without merit.
Regards, Dan Nigro
Chief of Department FDNY (retired)
[10] ----------------------------
NOBODY with relevant structural engineering or demolition expertise
thinks that there is anything strange about how WTC7 collapsed. None
of the people in AE911 that speak about WTC7 have this expertise.
That includes Jones and Gage.
Gage's Resume: http://members.shaw.ca/loudstudios/GageCV.pdf
Jones' resume http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/atomic/physics1/atomic/jones_cv.htm
Professor Jones nas vener released teh full lab results for his
claims.
[11] ----------------------------
No all-steel building in history was ever doused with thousands of
fuel, set afire and allowed to burn without any firefighting. WTC1,
2, and 7 were unique in that each was hit by tons of something, had
structural damage and had minimal fire-proofing, and had no
firefighting.
[12] -----------------------------------------------------------
Wounded Buildings Offer Survival Lessons (Dec 4, 2001)
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C00E4DF1F3DF937A35751C1A9679C8B63&scp=1&sq=&st=nyt
Illustration from article. http://tinyurl.com/ynjre3
Also: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=108006
When the south tower collapsed, said Mr. Trelstad, the engineer,
some of its huge columns fell and ripped out many of the steel
spandrels, or cross beams between windows, on the north facade of
90 West Street. One series of spandrels, from the 11th down to the
3rd floors on the east part of the facade, was destroyed as if a
giant claw had run down the front of the building.
...
He was first struck by the scale of the devastation and the
eeriness of the setting. Fires set by the south tower's debris had
gutted the 2nd, 3rd, 10th and 23rd floors, and much of the northern
portions of the 4th, 5th, 8th and 21st floors. At least two people
are believed to have died in the building, trapped in an elevator.
[13] ---------------------------------------------------
NIOSH Publication No. 2005-132:
Preventing Injuries and Deaths of Fire Fighters Due to Truss System Failures
All-steel trusses present their own hazards when exposed to fire. The
mass and surface area of steel truss components are factors that
determine time to failure. A heavy, thick section of steel has greater
resistance to fire than a lightweight section of the same length
because of the increased mass. A large, solid steel truss can absorb
heat and take longer to reach its failure temperature, whereas a
lightweight steel truss such as an open-web bar joist will be heated
to its failure temperature much faster. ...
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2005-132/
(see table D-1 http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2005-132/#ad )
[14] ------------
Title: A BUILDING FIRE AND STRUCTURAL FAILURE (Steel buildings DO collapse because of fire)
URL Source: http://www.mutualbox.com/a_building_fire_and_structural_f.htm
Published: Jul 6, 2006
When you enter a lightweight steel bar joist building on fire and you
hear popping, cracking, creaking and metal to metal rubbing together,
get out, the trusses are failing. It is not safe to enter for any
reason. At 205 West Jefferson Street Captain Patterson, Engine 108,
the first engine on the scene reported hearing popping sounds,
cracking sounds and things that just did not sound right. After moving
in about twenty feet attacking the fire, he wisely evacuated the
building. The roof collapsed shortly after they evacuated. All of
these sounds were steel I beams and trusses failing. At a recent
warehouse fire in Prince George.s County MD companies were operating
on the interior of the lightweight steel bar joist building. When
Volunteer Chief 33, Ricky Riley, arrived on the scene and radioed his
engine crew, he asked them, "what do you hear, do you hear anything",
the response from the company officer was "yes, there are popping
sounds" He ordered all interior companies to evacuate the
building. The roof collapsed approximetley ten minutes after
evacuation. Again, the sounds were the roof trusses failing.
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=148816
---
[15] --------------------------------------------------
Interim Report on WTC 7
http://wtc.nist.gov/progress_report_june04/appendixl.pdf
Links to other WTC7 reports
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_World_Trade_Center
---
[16] -----------------------------------------
Why the World Trade Center Buildings Collapsed A Fire Chief's Assessment
http://vincentdunn.com/wtc.html
---
[17] ----------------------------------
John Jay College teaches about stuture fires for NY firemen.
http://web.jjay.cuny.edu/~firesci/fire_science_faculty.htm
Glenn Corbett, professor of fire science at John Jay College of
Criminal Justice says the CD people are k00ks and explains why in this
20 minute interview.
http://www.wnyc.org/shows/bl/episodes/2007/09/14
FDNY Training - Including building collapse.
http://www.fdtraining.com/NewCourses.html
[18] --------------------------------
Many members of Structural Engineers Assoc of NY
reported to WTC early on 9/11 to supertvice investigation.
http://www.seaony.org/
Source: Book: _Nine Months at Ground Zero_ By Stout, Vitchers, & Gray
[19] -----------------------------
Explosions in a steel bulding fire (Not WTC)
"As Engine 15 turned up Liberty street Captain John Kahl could see
light smoke from the top floor of the Hurst Building. Captain Kahl
did not think he had much of a fire so he went to check the
automatic alarm box. The box indicated that there was fire in the
basement, so Captain Kahl had his crew force entry threw a glass
door on the German street side and entered the building with a 3/4
inch chemical line and 2 1/2 hand line. As the crew was standing
on the stairs to the basement they could see the fire rolling
across the ceiling towards the elevator shaft. It was not long
after Captain Kahl entered the building when a smoke explosion
occurred in the elevator shaft. The explosion was powerful enough
to blow off the roof , break several windows and also throw large
embers across the street into the broken windows of several
buildings. All the firefighters escaped with out injury"
What you have just read describeds what firemen call a smoke
explosion at a fire in Boston. This phenomenon occurs when a fire
creates a pocket of hot explosive gas in an enclosed area. The gas
comes from material in the area of the fire that is heated to the
point of giving off gas, but the area is not hot enough for
spontaneous combustion to occure. All it takes is a spark or the
inrush of oxygen rich air to make the gas ignite. Its similar to a
backdraft but in a backdraft the gas has space to expand and burn,
in a smoke explosion the enclosed space make the effect more
explosive in nature.
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2819408&postcount=477
[20] ----
BBC Early Report on WTC7 Collapse Explained
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zZrlNw-31R8
---
Don't respond with "people heard...." or "experts say.." unless you
have the names of those people. Lets see what they heard or saw.
Don't respond with a video of eyewitness claims. I want names and text
transcripts. That's what I give you and am prepared to give you more
of. There is video on Twoofer sites that has had explosion sounds
added to it.
Don't respond by changing the topic or making a counterclaim.
You can prove me wrong by posting a name with credentials and a
statement.
--
Al Dykes
News is something someone wants to suppress, everything else is advertising.
- Lord Northcliffe, publisher of the Daily Mail |
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Guy Caballero
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: WTC 7 Foreknowledge |
|
|
<lorad474@cs.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
BBC reporting that WTC7 had collapsed 20 minutes before it happened..
is very unsettling.
That's because the BBC was in on 9/11 (and the faked moon landings and the |
big lie called the Holocaust). |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:44 am Post subject: Re: WTC 7 Foreknowledge |
|
|
On Jun 19, 3:13 pm, Warlord <darkwarl...@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
MI Wakefield <bed...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
lorad...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:8f8467a9-4063-4fbe-b502-356fbe40562c@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com....
On Jun 19, 8:25 am, ady...@panix.com (Al Dykes) wrote:
[quoted text muted]
is very unsettling.
Everyone that had a police scanner knew that WTC7 was going to
collapse due to damage and fire.
Sorry.. didn't realize:
1) That BBC had a time machine - or even a 'everbody (unsubstantiated)
knows' police scanner.
BBC, Bush, Larry Silverstein and Bohemian Grove did 9/11.
-or-
2) Larry (blood-sucker) Silverstein's "Pull it" didn't have anything
to do with WTC7 coming down.
"Pull it" is secret Bohemian Grove / BBC / Bush / Jewish slang for "Time to
detonate the rest of our secret Israeli mini nukes so we can collect our big
pay day!
|
Thanks for the update...
And here I was thinking that 911 was just a ruse used by neocons to
occupy Iraq. |
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:46 am Post subject: Re: WTC 7 Foreknowledge |
|
|
On Jun 19, 3:19 pm, "MI Wakefield" <bed...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
| Quote: |
lorad...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:8f8467a9-4063-4fbe-b502-356fbe40562c@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 19, 8:25 am, ady...@panix.com (Al Dykes) wrote:
In article
8a94bfc2-054f-4a9a-a753-e2abe4428...@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
lorad...@cs.com> wrote:
On Jun 19, 7:08=A0am, Ramabriga <Ramabr...@gmail.com> wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DN1LetB0z8_o
** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**
BBC reporting that WTC7 had collapsed 20 minutes before it happened..
is very unsettling.
Everyone that had a police scanner knew that WTC7 was going to
collapse due to damage and fire.
Sorry.. didn't realize:
1) That BBC had a time machine - or even a 'everbody (unsubstantiated)
knows' police scanner.
-or-
2) Larry (blood-sucker) Silverstein's "Pull it" didn't have anything
to do with WTC7 coming down.
+++++++++++++++++++++
Still haven't come up with anything aside from "The Jews did it"?
|
I never came up with any such idea, little lying person.
It was your idea..
Now tell me why you think "the Jews did it". |
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Warlord
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:13 am Post subject: Re: WTC 7 Foreknowledge |
|
|
MI Wakefield <bedlam@sympatico.ca> wrote:
| Quote: |
lorad474@cs.com> wrote in message
news:8f8467a9-4063-4fbe-b502-356fbe40562c@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 19, 8:25 am, ady...@panix.com (Al Dykes) wrote:
[quoted text muted]
is very unsettling.
Everyone that had a police scanner knew that WTC7 was going to
collapse due to damage and fire.
Sorry.. didn't realize:
1) That BBC had a time machine - or even a 'everbody (unsubstantiated)
knows' police scanner.
|
BBC, Bush, Larry Silverstein and Bohemian Grove did 9/11.
| Quote: |
-or-
2) Larry (blood-sucker) Silverstein's "Pull it" didn't have anything
to do with WTC7 coming down.
|
"Pull it" is secret Bohemian Grove / BBC / Bush / Jewish slang for "Time to
detonate the rest of our secret Israeli mini nukes so we can collect our big
pay day! |
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MI Wakefield
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:19 am Post subject: Re: WTC 7 Foreknowledge |
|
|
<lorad474@cs.com> wrote in message
news:8f8467a9-4063-4fbe-b502-356fbe40562c@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 19, 8:25 am, ady...@panix.com (Al Dykes) wrote:
Sorry.. didn't realize:
1) That BBC had a time machine - or even a 'everbody (unsubstantiated)
knows' police scanner.
-or-
2) Larry (blood-sucker) Silverstein's "Pull it" didn't have anything
to do with WTC7 coming down.
+++++++++++++++++++++
Still haven't come up with anything aside from "The Jews did it"? |
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tankfixer
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:01 am Post subject: Re: WTC 7 Foreknowledge |
|
|
In article <8a94bfc2-054f-4a9a-a753-e2abe4428248
@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, lorad474@cs.com says...
We all know the media never reports things wrong.
--
"Oh Norman, listen! The loons are calling!"
- Katherine Hepburn, "On Golden Pond" |
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Carl Walden
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:25 am Post subject: Re: WTC 7 Foreknowledge |
|
|
tankfixer <paul.carrier@gmail.comm> wrote:
| Quote: |
In article <8a94bfc2-054f-4a9a-a753-e2abe4428248
@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, lorad474@cs.com says...
On Jun 19, 7:08 am, Ramabriga <Ramabr...@gmail.com> wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1LetB0z8_o
** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**
BBC reporting that WTC7 had collapsed 20 minutes before it happened..
is very unsettling.
Mui Mysterioso.. as they say.
We all know the media never reports things wrong.
Especially during an event like 9/11, where there were plenty of mistakes |
becuse it was mayhem. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:32 am Post subject: Re: WTC 7 Foreknowledge |
|
|
On Jun 21, 6:01 pm, tankfixer <paul.carr...@gmail.comm> wrote:
| Quote: |
In article <8a94bfc2-054f-4a9a-a753-e2abe4428248
@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, lorad...@cs.com says...
On Jun 19, 7:08 am, Ramabriga <Ramabr...@gmail.com> wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1LetB0z8_o
** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**
BBC reporting that WTC7 had collapsed 20 minutes before it happened..
is very unsettling.
Mui Mysterioso.. as they say.
We all know the media never reports things wrong.
--
"Oh Norman, listen! The loons are calling!"
- Katherine Hepburn, "On Golden Pond"
|
Norm, listen... It's that loon again! |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:34 am Post subject: Re: WTC 7 Foreknowledge |
|
|
On Jun 21, 6:25 pm, Carl Walden <cwal...@excite.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
tankfixer <paul.carr...@gmail.comm> wrote:
In article <8a94bfc2-054f-4a9a-a753-e2abe4428248
@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, lorad...@cs.com says...
On Jun 19, 7:08 am, Ramabriga <Ramabr...@gmail.com> wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1LetB0z8_o
** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**
BBC reporting that WTC7 had collapsed 20 minutes before it happened..
is very unsettling.
Mui Mysterioso.. as they say.
We all know the media never reports things wrong.
Especially during an event like 9/11, where there were plenty of mistakes
becuse it was mayhem.
|
Engineered mayhem... catastrophies provide for expectional
opportunities. |
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