Science Talk
Science Talk
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Forums
Science Forums
Biology
Math
Astronomy
Physics
Technology
Chemistry
Social Sciences
History
Psychology
Philosophy
Sociology
Linguistics
Religious Studies
Economics
Man Woman Ethno
Ask an Expert
World Records
Society Issues
Education
People
Alternative Science
Queen Elizabeth II visits mosque, listens to Quran recital

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Science Talk Forum Index -> Politics
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Ramabriga
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:45 am    Post subject: Queen Elizabeth II visits mosque, listens to Quran recital Reply with quote

Britain's Queen Elizabeth II, wearing a head scarf, visits the Ottoman era Green mosque in
Bursa, western Turkey, Wednesday, May 14, 2008. Britain's Queen Elizabeth II began her first
visit to Turkey in 37 years on Tuesday, praising the predominantly Muslim country's role as a
bridge between West and the Islamic world. (AP Photo/Riza Ozel, Pool)

May 14, 2008

BURSA, Turkey—Queen Elizabeth II listened to a recital of the Quran at an Ottoman-era mosque
Wednesday, the second day of a state visit to Turkey.
more stories like this

Her shoes removed and her head covered, the queen heard a religious scholar recite verses from
the holy book at the 15th-century Green Mosque.

Earlier, the British monarch watched a traditional Ottoman shadow puppet show and a fashion
show. She also visited a silk market in Bursa, a city that once was an Ottoman capital.

The queen is making her first visit to Turkey in nearly 37 years to highlight the importance
Britain attaches to the predominantly Muslim country that is vying for European Union membership.

On Tuesday, she praised Turkey's role as a bridge between the West and the Muslim world.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2008/05/14/queen_elizabeth_ii_visits_mosque_listens_to_quran_recital/

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Back to top
  Ads
Advertising
Sponsor


Jerry Kraus
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:45 am    Post subject: Re: Queen Elizabeth II visits mosque, listens to Quran recit Reply with quote

On Jun 1, 4:45 pm, Ramabriga <Ramabr...@gmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
Britain's Queen Elizabeth II, wearing a head scarf, visits the Ottoman era Green mosque in
Bursa, western Turkey, Wednesday, May 14, 2008. Britain's Queen Elizabeth II began her first
visit to Turkey in 37 years on Tuesday, praising the predominantly Muslim country's role as a
bridge between West and the Islamic world. (AP Photo/Riza Ozel, Pool)

May 14, 2008

BURSA, Turkey—Queen Elizabeth II listened to a recital of the Quran at an Ottoman-era mosque
Wednesday, the second day of a state visit to Turkey.
more stories like this

Her shoes removed and her head covered, the queen heard a religious scholar recite verses from
the holy book at the 15th-century Green Mosque.

Earlier, the British monarch watched a traditional Ottoman shadow puppet show and a fashion
show. She also visited a silk market in Bursa, a city that once was an Ottoman capital.

The queen is making her first visit to Turkey in nearly 37 years to highlight the importance
Britain attaches to the predominantly Muslim country that is vying for European Union membership.

On Tuesday, she praised Turkey's role as a bridge between the West and the Muslim world.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2008/05/14/queen...

** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**

She's about to convert to Islam. She's going to dump Phillip for some
young Muslim Hunk. Just like Diana. You watch.
Back to top
  Ads
Advertising
Sponsor


Guest






PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:45 am    Post subject: The REAL Truth On 'Multiculturalism' And 'Diversity'! Reply with quote

On Jun 1, 6:01 pm, "¯Doug¦Ç" <noün...@now.com> wrote:

<Mossad-inspired hate nonsense deleted>

I find it interesting to see that the notorious Jewish hate-monger and
Mossad stooge Gary Rumain of Silver Spring, Maryland (AKA '"¯Doug¦Ç"
', 'Simple_Language, 'FACE', 'Sir John Howard', 'Polly the Parrot',
and numerous other aliases), and infamous for his Internet-wide
torrent of hate-postings against anyone who is not slavishly pro-
Israel, fits exactly the techniques described in this insightful
posting by 'St.George's Day' on uk.politics.misc earlier today

(Gary Rumain has already tried to ridicule it there under another of
his aliases, 'David Johnson': if you want to know the background of
this Internet lowlife, just type 'GARY A.RUMAIN' or 'GARY RUMAIN
SILVER SPRING' into the Google search engine)
_________________________

The Culture of Critique reviewed by Stanley Hornbeck

In The Culture of Critique, Kevin MacDonald advances a carefully
researched but extremely controversial thesis: that certain 20th
century intellectual movements – largely established and led by Jews

have changed European societies in fundamental ways and destroyed the
confidence of Western man. He claims that these movements were
designed, consciously or unconsciously, to advance Jewish interests
even though they were presented to non-Jews as universalistic and
even
utopian. He concludes that the increasing dominance of these ideas
has
had profound political and social consequences that benefited Jews
but
caused great harm to gentile societies. This analysis, which he makes
with considerable force, is an unusual indictment of a people
generally thought to be more sinned against than sinning.

The Culture of Critique is the final title in Prof. MacDonald's
massive, three-volume study of Jews and their role in history. The
two
previous volumes are A People That Shall Dwell Alone and Separation
and its Discontents, published by Praeger in 1994 and 1998. The
series
is written from a sociobiological perspective that views Judaism as a
unique survival strategy that helps Jews compete with other ethnic
groups. Prof. MacDonald, who is a psychologist at the University of
California at Long Beach, explains this perspective in the first
volume, which describes Jews as having a very powerful sense of
uniqueness that has kept them socially and genetically separate from
other peoples. The second volume traces the history of Jewish-gentile
relations, and finds the causes of anti-Semitism primarily in the
almost invariable commercial and intellectual dominance of gentile
societies by Jews and in their refusal to assimilate. The Culture of
Critique brings his analysis into the present century, with an
account
of the Jewish role in the radical critique of traditional culture.

The intellectual movements Prof. MacDonald discusses in this volume
are Marxism, Freudian psychoanalysis, the Frankfurt school of
sociology, and Boasian anthropology. Perhaps most relevant from a
racial perspective, he also traces the role of Jews in promoting
multi-
culturalism and Third World immigration. Throughout his analysis
Prof.
MacDonald reiterates his view that Jews have promoted these movements
as Jews and in the interests of Jews, though they have often tried to
give the impression that they had no distinctive interests of their
own. Therefore Prof. MacDonald's most profound charge against Jews is
not ethnocentrism but dishonesty – that while claiming to be working
for the good of mankind they have often worked for their own good and
to the detriment of others. While attempting to promote the
brotherhood of man by dissolving the ethnic identification of
gentiles, Jews have maintained precisely the kind of intense group
solidarity they decry as immoral in others.

Celebrating Diversity

Prof. MacDonald claims that one of the most consistent ways in which
Jews have advanced their interests has been to promote pluralism and
diversity – but only for others. Ever since the 19th century, they
have led movements that tried to discredit the traditional
foundations
of gentile society: patriotism, racial loyalty, the Christian basis
for morality, social homogeneity, and sexual restraint. At the same
time, within their own communities, and with regard to the state of
Israel, they have often supported the very institutions they attack
in
gentile society.

Why is this in the interests of Jews? Because the parochial group
loyalty characteristic of Jews attracts far less attention in a
society that does not have a cohesive racial and cultural core. The
Jewish determination not to assimilate fully, which accounts for
their
survival as a people for thousands for years – even without a country
– has invariably attracted unpleasant and even murderous scrutiny in
nations with well -defined national identities. In Prof. MacDonald's
view it is therefore in the interest of Jews to dilute and weaken the
identity of any people among whom they live. Jewish identity can
flower in safety only when gentile identity is weak.

Prof. MacDonald quotes a remarkable passage from Charles Silberman:
"American Jews are committed to cultural tolerance because of their
belief – one firmly rooted in history – that Jews are safe only in a
society acceptant of a wide range of attitudes and behaviors, as well
as a diversity of religious and ethnic groups. It is this belief, for
example, not approval of homosexuality, that leads an overwhelming
majority of American Jews to endorse 'gay rights' and to take a
liberal stance on most other so-called 'social' issues."

He is saying, in effect, that when Jews make the diversity-is-our-
strength argument it is in support of their real goal of diluting a
society's homogeneity so that Jews will feel safe. They are couching
a
Jewish agenda in terms they think gentiles will accept. Likewise, as
the second part of the Silberman quotation suggests, Jews may support
deviant movements, not because they think it is good for the country
but because it is good for the Jews.

Prof. Silberman also provides an illuminating quote from a Jewish
economist who thought that republicans had more sensible economic
policies but who voted for the Democratic presidential candidate
anyway. His reason? "I'd rather live in a country governed by the
faces I saw at the Democratic convention than those I saw at the
Republican convention." This man apparently distrusts white gentiles
and voted for a racially mixed party even if its economic policies
were wrong. What is good for Jews appears to come before what is good
for the country.

Earl Raab, former president of heavily Jewish Brandeis University
makes the diversity argument in a slightly different way. Expressing
his satisfaction with the prediction that by the middle of the next
century whites will become a minority, he writes, "We have tipped
beyond the point where a Nazi-Aryan party will be able to prevail in
this country." He is apparently prepared to displace the people and
culture of the founding stock in order to prevent the theoretical
rise
of an anti-Jewish regime. Prof. Raab appears to see whites mainly as
potential Nazis, and is willing to sacrifice their culture and
national continuity in order to defuse an imagined threat to Jews.
This passage takes for granted the continued future existence of Jews
as a distinct community even as gentile whites decline in numbers and
influence.

In the same passage, Prof. Raab continues by noting that, "We [Jews]
have been nourishing the American climate of opposition to bigotry
for
about half a century. That climate has not yet been perfected, but
the
heterogeneous nature of our population tends to make it
irreversible..." – just as it tends to make the ultimate displacement
of European culture also irreversible.

Prof. MacDonald traces the development of this diversity strategy to
several sources. It is widely recognized that the German-Jewish
immigrant Franz Boas (1858-1942) almost single-handedly established
the current contours of anthropology, ridding it of all biological
explanations for differences in human culture or behavior. Prof.
MacDonald reports that he and his followers – with the notable
exceptions of Margaret Mead and Ruth Benedict – were all Jews with
strong Jewish identities: "Jewish identification and the pursuit of
perceived Jewish interests, particularly in advocating an ideology of
cultural pluralism as a model for Western societies, has been the
'invisible subject' of American anthropology."

By 1915, Boas and his students controlled the American
Anthropological
Association and by 1926 they headed every major American university
anthropology department. From this position of dominance they
promoted
the idea that race and biology are trivial matters, and that
environment counts for everything. They completely recast
anthropology
so as to provide intellectual support for open immigration,
integration, and miscegenation. They also laid the foundation for the
idea that because all races have the same potential, the failures of
non-whites must be blamed exclusively on white oppression. The
ultimate conclusion of Boasian anthropology was that since
environment
accounts for all human differences, every inequality in achievement
can be eliminated by changing the environment. This has been the
justification for enormous and wasteful government intervention
programs.

The entire "civil rights" movement can be seen as a natural
consequence of the triumph of Boasian thinking. Since all races were
equivalent, separation was immoral. The color line also sharpened
white self-consciousness in ways that might make whites more aware of
Jewish parochialism. Thus it was, according to Prof. MacDonald, that
Jews almost single-handedly launched the desegregation movement.
Without the leadership of Jews, the NAACP might never have been
established, and until 1975 every one of its presidents was a Jew.
Prof. MacDonald reports that in 1917, when the black separatist
Marcus
Garvey visited NAACP headquarters, he saw so many white faces that he
stormed out, complaining that it was a white organization.

Prof. MacDonald concludes that the efforts of Jews were crucial to
the
"civil rights" transformation of America. He quotes a lawyer for the
American Jewish Congress who claims that "many of these [civil
rights]
laws were actually written in the offices of Jewish agencies by
Jewish
staff people, introduced by Jewish legislators and pressured into
being by Jewish voters."

While the Boas school was promoting integration and racial
equivalence, it was also critical of, in Prof. MacDonald's words,
"American culture as overly homogeneous, hypocritical, emotionally
and
aesthetically repressive (especially with regard to sexuality).
Central to this program was creating ethnographies of idyllic [Third-
World] cultures that were free of the negatively perceived traits
that
were attributed to Western culture."

The role of the anthropologist became one of criticizing everything
about Western society while glorifying everything primitive. Prof.
MacDonald notes that Boasian portrayals of non-Western peoples
deliberately ignored barbarism and cruelty or simply attributed it to
contamination from the West. He sees this as a deliberate attempt to
undermine the confidence of Western societies and to make them
permeable to Third World influences and people. Today, this view is
enshrined in the dogma that America must remain open to immigration
because immigrants bring spirit and energy that natives somehow lack.

Authoritarian Personalities

In order to open European-derived societies to the immigration that
would transform them, it was necessary to discredit racial solidarity
and commitment to tradition. Prof. MacDonald argues that this was the
basic purpose of a group of intellectuals known as the Frankfurt
School. What is properly known as the Institute of Social Research
was
founded in Frankfurt, Germany, during the Weimar period by a Jewish
millionaire but was closed down by the Nazis shortly after they took
power. Most of its staff emigrated to the United States and the
institute reconstituted itself at UC Berkeley. The organization was
headed by Max Horkheimer, and its most influential members were T.W.
Adorno, Erich Fromm, and Herbert Marcuse, all of whom had strong
Jewish identities. Horkheimer made no secret of the partisan nature
of
the institute's activities: "Research would be able here to transform
itself directly into propaganda," he wrote. (Italics in the
original.)

Prof. MacDonald devotes many pages to an analysis of The
Authoritarian
Personality, which was written by Adorno and appeared in 1950. It was
part of a series called Studies in Prejudice, produced by the
Frankfurt school, which included titles like Anti-Semitism and
Emotional Disorder. The Authoritarian Personality was particularly
influential because, according to Prof. MacDonald, the American
Jewish
Committee heavily funded its promotion and because Jewish academics
took up its message so enthusiastically.

The book's purpose is to make every group affiliation sound as if it
were a sign of mental disorder. Everything from patriotism to
religion
to family – and race – loyalty are signs of a dangerous and defective
"authoritarian personality." Because drawing distinctions between
different groups is illegitimate, all group loyalties – even close
family ties! – are "prejudice." As Christopher Lasch has written, the
book leads to the conclusion that prejudice "could be eradicated only
by subjecting the American people to what amounted to collective
psychotherapy – by treating them as inmates of an insane asylum."

But according to Prof. MacDonald it is precisely the kind of group
loyalty, respect for tradition, and consciousness of differences
central to Jewish identity that Horkheimer and Adorno described as
mental illness in gentiles. These writers adopted what eventually
became a favorite Soviet tactic against dissidents: Anyone whose
political views were different from theirs was insane. As Prof.
MacDonald explains, the Frankfurt school never criticized or even
described Jewish group identity – only that of gentiles: "behavior
that is critical to Judaism as a successful group evolutionary
strategy is conceptualized as pathological in gentiles."

For these Jewish intellectuals, anti-Semitism was also a sign of
mental illness: They concluded that Christian self-denial and
especially sexual repression caused hatred of Jews. The Frankfurt
school was enthusiastic about psycho-analysis, according to which
"Oedipal ambivalence toward the father and anal-sadistic relations in
early childhood are the anti-Semite's irrevocable inheritance."

In addition to ridiculing patriotism and racial identity, the
Frankfurt school glorified promiscuity and Bohemian poverty. Prof.
MacDonald sees the school as a seminal influence: "Certainly many of
the central attitudes of the largely successful 1960s countercultural
revolution find expression in The Authoritarian Personality,
including
idealizing rebellion against parents, low-investment sexual
relationships, and scorn for upward social mobility, social status,
family pride, the Christian religion, and patriotism."

Of the interest here, however, is the movement's success in branding
ancient loyalties to nation and race as mental illnesses. Although he
came later, the French-Jewish "deconstructionist" Jacques Derrida was
in the same tradition when he wrote:

"The idea behind deconstruction is to deconstruct the workings of
strong nation-states with powerful immigration policies, to
deconstruct the rhetoric of nationalism, the politics of place, the
metaphysics of native land and native tongue... The idea is to disarm
the bombs... of identity that nation-states build to defend
themselves
against the stranger, against Jews and Arabs and immigrants..."

As Prof. MacDonald puts it, "Viewed at its most abstract level, a
fundamental agenda is thus to influence the European-derived peoples
of the United States to view concern about their own demographic and
cultural eclipse as irrational and as an indication of
psychopathology." Needless to say, this project has been successful;
anyone opposed to the displacement of whites is routinely treated as
a
mentally unhinged "hate-monger," and whenever whites defend their
group interests they are described as psychologically inadequate. The
irony has not escaped Prof. MacDonald: "The ideology that
ethnocentrism was a form of psychopathology was promulgated by a
group
that over its long history had arguably been the most ethnocentric
group among all the cultures of the world."

Immigration

Prof. MacDonald argues that it is entirely natural for Jews to
promote
open immigration. It brings about the "diversity" Jews find
comforting
and it keeps America open to persecuted co-religionists throughout
the
world. He says Jews are the only group that has always fought for
mass
immigration; a few European ethnic organizations have made sporadic
efforts to make it easier for their own people to come, but only Jews
have consistently promoted open borders for all comers. Moreover,
whatever disagreements they may have had on other issues, Jews of
every political persuasion have favored high immigration.

This, too, goes back many years, and Prof. MacDonald traces in
considerable detail the sustained Jewish pro-immigration effort.
Israel Zangwill, author of the eponymous 1908 play The Melting Pot,
was of the view that "there is only one way to World Peace, and that
is the absolute abolition of passports, visas, frontiers, custom
houses..." He was nevertheless an ardent Zionist and disapproved of
Jewish intermarriage.

Although the statue of liberty, properly known as Liberty
Enlightening
the World, was a gift to the United States from France as a tribute
to
American political traditions, the sonnet by the Jewish Emma Lazarus
helped change it into a symbol of immigration. Affixed to the base of
the statue several decades after its construction, the poem welcomes
to America "huddled masses yearning to breath free/The wretched
refuse
of your teeming shore."

Prof. MacDonald has discovered that implausible arguments about
diversity being a quintessentially American strength have been made
by
Jews for a long time. He reports that in 1948 the American Jewish
Committee was urging Congress to believe that "Americanism is the
spirit behind the welcome that America has traditionally extended to
people of all races, all religions, all nationalities." Of course,
there had never been such a tradition. In 1952, the American Jewish
Congress argued in hearings on immigration that "our national
experience has confirmed beyond a doubt that our very strength lies
in
the diversity of our peoples." This, too, was at a time when U.S.
immigration law was still explicitly designed to maintain a white
majority.

It is often said that when the old immigration policy was scrapped in
1965, scarcely anyone knew, and no one predicted, that the new law
would change the racial makeup of the country. Prof. MacDonald
disputes this, arguing that this had been the objective of Jewish
groups from the beginning.

Prof. MacDonald finds that Jews have been the foremost advocates of
immigration in England, France, and Canada, and that Jewish groups
were the most vocal opponents of independence for Quebec. Australian
Jews led the effort to dismantle the "white Australia" policy, one
reason for which was cited in an editorial in the Australian Jewish
Democrat: "The strengthening of multi-cultural or diverse Australia
is
also our most effective insurance policy against anti-Semitism. The
day Australia has a Chinese Australian Governor General I would feel
more confident of my freedom to live as a Jewish Australian." Like
Earl Raab writing about the United States, this Australian Jew is
prepared to sacrifice the traditional culture, people, and identity
of
Australia to specifically Jewish interests. It would not be
surprising
if such an openly expressed objective did not have the opposite
effect
from the intended, and increase anti-Jewish sentiment.

Jews and the Left

It is well known that Jews have been traditionally associated with
the
left, and Prof. MacDonald investigates this connection in some
detail.
Historically it was understandable that Jews should support movements
that advocated overthrowing the existing order. After emancipation,
Jews met resistance from gentile elites who did not want to lose
ground to competitors, and outsiders easily become revolutionaries.
However, in Prof. MacDonald's view, Jewish commitment to leftist
causes has often been motivated by the hope that communism,
especially, would be a tool for combating anti-Semitism, and by
expectation that universalist social solutions would be yet another
way to dissolve gentile loyalties that might exclude Jews. The appeal
of univeralist ideologies is tied to the implicit understanding that
Jewish particularism will be exempt: "At the extreme, acceptance of a
universalist ideology by gentiles would result in gentiles not
perceiving Jews as in a different social category at all, while
nonetheless Jews would be able to maintain a strong personal identity
as Jews."

Prof. MacDonald argues that Jews had specifically Jewish reasons for
supporting the Bolshevik revolution. Czarist Russia was notorious for
its anti-Semitic policies and, during its early years, the Soviet
Union seemed to be the promised land for Jews: it ended state anti-
Semitism, tried to eradicate Christianity, opened opportunities to
individual Jews, and preached a "classless" society in which
Jewishness would presumably attract no negative attention. Moreover,
since Marxism taught that all conflict was economic rather than
ethnic, many Jews believed it heralded the end of anti-Semitism.

Prof. MacDonald emphasizes that although Jewish Communists preached
both atheism and the solidarity of the world's working people, they
took pains to preserve a distinct, secular Jewish identity. He
reports
that Lenin himself (who had one Jewish grandparent) approved the
continuation of an explicitly Jewish identity under Communism, and in
1946 the Communist Party of the United States voted a resolution also
supporting Jewish peoplehood in Communist countries. Thus, although
Communism was supposed to be without borders or religion, Jews were
confident that it would make a place for their own group identity. He
writes that despite the official view that all men were to be
brothers, "very few Jews lost their Jewish identity during the entire
soviet era."

Jewish Communists sometimes betrayed remarkable particularism. Prof.
MacDonald quotes Charles Pappoport, the French Communist leader: "The
Jewish people [are] the bearer of all the great ideas of unity and
human community in history... The disappearance of the Jewish people
would signify the death of humankind, the final transformation of man
into a wild beast." This seems to attribute to Jews an elite position
incompatible with "unity and human community."

Prof. MacDonald argues that many Jews began to fall away from
Communism only after Stalin showed himself to be anti-Semitic. And
just as Jews had been the leading revolutionaries in anti-Semitic
pre-
Revolutionary Russia, Jews became the leading dissidents in an anti-
Semitic Soviet Union. A similar pattern can be found in the imposed
Communist governments of Eastern Europe, which were largely dominated
by Jews. The majority of the leaders of the Polish Communist Party,
for example, spoke better Yiddish than Polish, and they too
maintained
a strong Jewish identity. After the fall of Communism many stopped
being Polish and emigrated to Israel.

Prof. MacDonald writes that in Bela Kun's short-lived 1919 Communist
government of Hungary, 95 percent of the leaders were Jews, and that
at the time of the 1956 uprising Communism was so closely associated
with Jews that the rioting had almost the flavor of a pogrom. He
argues that in the United States as well, the hard core among
Communists and members of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) was
mainly Jewish. Here, too, a revolutionary, atheist, and universalist
world-view was fully compatible with strong identification as Jews.
Prof. MacDonald quotes from a study of American leftists:

"Many Communists, for example, state that they could never have
married a spouse who was not a leftist. When Jews were asked if they
could have married Gentiles, many hesitated, surprised by the
question, and found it difficult to answer. Upon reflection, many
concluded that they had always taken marriage to someone Jewish for
granted." Their commitment as Jews was even more fundamental and
unexamined than their commitment to the left.

Prof. MacDonald reports that many American Jews also abandoned
Communism as it became increasingly anti-Semitic. For a large number,
the Soviet Union's severing of diplomatic ties with Israel during the
1967 war was the last straw. A former SDS activist no doubt spoke for
many when he explained, "If I must choose between the Jewish cause
and
a 'progressive' anti-Israel SDS, I shall choose the Jewish cause. If
barricades are erected, I will fight as a Jew." According to Prof.
MacDonald, American neoconservatism can also be described as a
surface
shift in external politics that leaves the more fundamental
commitment
to Jewish identity unchanged. Thus, former leftists abandoned an
ideology that had turned against Israel and refashioned American
conservatism into a different movement, the one unshakable theme of
which was support for Israel. Neoconservatives also support high
levels of immigration and were active in excluding white racial
identification from the "respectable" right.

Objections

There are many possible objections to Prof. MacDonald's thesis. The
first is that it is largely built on the assumption that Jews are
dishonest. It is always risky to assume one understands the motives
of
others better than they do themselves. Jews have traditionally
thought
of themselves as a benevolent presence, even as a "light unto the
nations" or a "chosen people." This is echoed today in the Jewish
self
image as champions of the excluded and the oppressed. Most of the
time
what passes for "social justice" has the effect of undermining the
traditions and loyalties of gentile society, but are Jews
deliberately
undermining these things rather than righting what they perceive to
be
wrongs?

Prof. MacDonald concedes that many Jews are sincere in their support
for liberal causes, but then escalates his indictment by arguing that
"the best deceivers are those who deceive themselves." In other
words,
many Jews who are actually working for Jewish interests have first
convinced themselves otherwise. A Jew who mainly wants America to
become less white may also have convinced himself that America
benefits from a multitude of cultures. Having convinced himself he
can
more effectively convince others.

Many Jews, Prof. MacDonald argues, are not even conscious of the
extent to which their Jewishness is central to their identities or
their political views. He quotes Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel on his
surprise at how passionately he embraced the Israeli side during the
1967 war: "I had not known how Jewish I was." This is an arresting
statement from a man who was thought to be perhaps the greatest
Jewish
spiritual leader of his time. And whether or not it affects their
politics, Jews certainly appear to have a very vivid sense of
peoplehood. Prof. MacDonald quotes theologian Eugene Borowitz as
saying,"most Jews claim to be equipped with an interpersonal friend-
or-
foe sensing device that enables them to detect the presence of
another
Jew, despite heavy camouflage." Always to think in terms of "friends
or foe" is no insignificant matter.

Prof. MacDonald is therefore skeptical of Jewish disavowals: "Surface
declarations of a lack of Jewish identity may be highly misleading."
He notes that Jewish publications write about the power and influence
of American Jews in language Jews would immediately denounce as
"anti-
Semitic" if used by gentiles. He agrees with Joseph Sobran, who has
said "they want to be Jews among themselves but resent being seen as
Jews by Gentiles. They want to pursue their own distinct interests
while pretending that they have no such interests..."

Prof. MacDonald argues that the success of Jewish-led intellectual
movements has been possible only because their Jewish character was
hidden. If multi-culturalism or mass immigration or The Authoritarian
Personality had been promoted by Orthodox Jews in black coats the
Jewish element would have been clear. Prof. MacDonald writes that in
fact, "the Jewish political agenda was not an aspect of the theory
and
the theories themselves had no overt Jewish content. Gentile
intellectuals approaching these theories were therefore unlikely to
view them as aspects of Jewish-gentile cultural competition or as an
aspect of a specifically Jewish political agenda." Prof. MacDonald
also claims that Jews have often tried to conceal the Jewish
character
of an intellectual movement by recruiting token gentiles for visible
positions as spokesmen. He writes that this tactic was so common in
the American Communist Party that gentiles often saw through it and
resigned.

But how can motives ever be completely known? Prof. MacDonald sets a
difficult test: "The best evidence that individuals have really
ceased
to have a Jewish identity is if they choose a political option that
they perceive as clearly not in the interest of Jews as a group. In
the absence of a clearly perceived conflict with Jewish interests, it
remains possible that different political choices among ethnic Jews
are only differences in tactics for how best to achieve Jewish
interests."

This standard may seem unduly harsh – until it is applied to white
gentiles. Third-World immigration, affirmative action, anti-
discrimination laws, and forced integration are clearly not in the
interests of whites, yet many whites embrace them, thus demonstrating
how completely they have abandoned their racial identity.

Finally, Prof. MacDonald raises the disturbing possibility that some
Jews, because of centuries of conflict with gentiles, actively hate
gentile society and consciously wish to destroy it: "a fundamental
motivation of Jewish intellectuals involved in social criticism has
simply been hatred of the gentile-dominated power structure perceived
as anti-Semitic." He describes the 19th century German-Jewish poet
Heinrich Heine as "using his skill, reputation and popularity to
undermine the intellectual confidence of the established order."

In defense of this highly provocative view, Prof. MacDonald quotes
Benjamin Disraeli on the effects of centuries of Jewish-gentile
relations on Jews: "They may have become so odious and so hostile to
mankind as to merit for their present conduct, no matter how
occasioned, the obloquy and ill-treatment of the communities in which
they dwell and with which they are scarcely permitted to mingle."

Apart from any questions of motives, however, is the question of
numbers. Jews are a tiny minority in the United States and within
that
minority there is disagreement even on matters that clearly affect
Jews. How can Jews possibly be responsible for dramatic changes in
the
intellectual landscape? In Prof. MacDonald's view, the explanation
lies in the intelligence, energy, dedication, and cohesiveness of
Jews. He attributes a great deal to the average IQ of Jews – at 115,
a
full standard deviation above the white gentile average – and to
"their hard work and dedication, their desire to make a mark on the
world, and their desire to rise in the world, engage in personal
promotion, and achieve public acclaim..." He also believes Jews have
worked together unfailingly on any question they consider necessary
for survival: "Intellectual activity is like any other human
endeavor:
Cohesive groups outcompete individual strategies." He notes that
there
has never been a time when large numbers of white Americans favored
non-white immigration; it was a cohesive, determined minority that
beat down the disorganized resistance of the majority.

Prof. MacDonald believes that because of the effectiveness of some
Jews, it was not even necessary that most Jews actively support anti-
majoritarian movements, but that Jewish activity was still decisive.
As he puts it, "Jewish-dominated intellectual movements were a
critical factor (necessary condition) for the triumph of the
intellectual left in late twentieth-century Western societies." This,
of course, can never be tested, but there can be no doubt that
American Jews have had a disproportionate effect on the American
intellect. Prof. MacDonald quotes Walter Kerr, writing in 1968, to
the
effect that "what has happened since World War II is that the
American
sensibility has become part Jewish, perhaps as much Jewish as it is
anything else... The literate American mind has come in some measure
to think Jewishly."

Aside from the question of whether Prof. MacDonald is right is the
further question of what difference it makes if he is right. If
correct, his thesis certainly sheds light on the rapidity with which
whites lost their will. Just a few decades ago whites were a
confident
race, proud of their achievements, convinced of their fitness to
dominate the globe. Today they are a declining, apologetic people,
ashamed of their history and not sure even of their claim to lands
they have occupied for centuries. It is very rare for fundamental
concepts to be stood on their heads in the course of just a
generation
or two, as has happened with thinking about race. Such speed suggests
there has been something more than natural change.

Originally appeared in American Renaissance, June 1999, issue 54
entitled 'Cherchez le Juif.' Stanley Hornbeck is the pen name of a
Washington, DC area businessman. Kevin MacDonald, The Culture of
Critique: An Evolutionary Analysis of Jewish Involvement in
Twentieth-
Century Intellectual and Political Movements, Praeger (1998) $15.00,
379 pp.

http://www.amazon.com/Culture-Critique-Evolutionary-Twentieth-Century...

http://www.kevinmacdonald.net/Blog.htm
Back to top
  Ads
Advertising
Sponsor


The Doctor
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:45 am    Post subject: Re: Queen Elizabeth II visits mosque, listens to Quran recit Reply with quote

In article <62838$4843187d$12115@news.teranews.com>,
Ramabriga <Ramabriga@gmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
Britain's Queen Elizabeth II, wearing a head scarf, visits the Ottoman
era Green mosque in
Bursa, western Turkey, Wednesday, May 14, 2008. Britain's Queen
Elizabeth II began her first
visit to Turkey in 37 years on Tuesday, praising the predominantly
Muslim country's role as a
bridge between West and the Islamic world. (AP Photo/Riza Ozel, Pool)

May 14, 2008

BURSA, Turkey—Queen Elizabeth II listened to a recital of the Quran at
an Ottoman-era mosque
Wednesday, the second day of a state visit to Turkey.
more stories like this

Her shoes removed and her head covered, the queen heard a religious
scholar recite verses from
the holy book at the 15th-century Green Mosque.

Earlier, the British monarch watched a traditional Ottoman shadow puppet
show and a fashion
show. She also visited a silk market in Bursa, a city that once was an
Ottoman capital.

The queen is making her first visit to Turkey in nearly 37 years to
highlight the importance
Britain attaches to the predominantly Muslim country that is vying for
European Union membership.

On Tuesday, she praised Turkey's role as a bridge between the West and
the Muslim world.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2008/05/14/queen_elizabeth_ii_visits_mosque_listens_to_quran_recital/

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Thank goodness there is a Godly leader who is sensible.
--
Member - Liberal International
This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
USA petition for dissolution of your nation!
Back to top
  Ads
Advertising
Sponsor


Guest






PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:45 am    Post subject: The REAL Truth On 'Multiculturalism' And 'Diversity'! Reply with quote

On Jun 1, 5:50 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

<snip>

Another Israeli Assassin To Get Promoted? Israeli Ex-Foreign Minister
& Prime Ministerial Hopeful Was A Mossad Hit Agent!

Report: Livni Hunted Palestinian Terrorists For Mossad In Europe

By Haaretz Service
'Haaretz', Israel,
Sunday, June 1, 2008.

Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni served as a Paris agent for the Mossad
overseas intelligence agency in the 1980s during a series of missions
it ran to kill Palestinian terrorists across Europe, according to the
Sunday Times.

The report cites Livni's former colleagues as saying the Kadima
frontrunner was on active duty in 1983, when senior Palestine
Liberation Organization official Mamoun Meraish was shot dead by two
Mossad agents in Athens.

While Livni was not involved in the killing, her service in the
Mossad
remains secret, the report says. She had joined the agency after
completing her service in the Israel Defense Forces with a rank of
lieutenant and one year of law school.

According to the report, during Livni's service in the Mossad she
traveled from her Paris base throughout Europe, seeking out
Palestinian terrorists.

"Tzipi was not an office girl," the report quotes an acquaintance of
Livni as saying. "She was a clever woman with an IQ of 150. She
blended in well in European capitals, working with male agents, most
of them ex-commandos, taking out Arab terrorists."

Livni resigned from the agency in the 1980s and returned to Israel to
complete her legal degree, citing the stress of the job, the Sunday
Times wrote.

The foreign minister is seen as the heir to the Kadima party, once
primary elections have been held. Last week, she broke her silence
regarding the investigation against Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and
called for fresh elections amid the corruption case.

A recent Haaretz-Dialog poll indicated that a Livni-led Kadima would
garner 23 Knesset seats, compared to a predicted 29 seats for
opposition leader Benjamin Netanyahu's Likud party.

Livni has greatly accelerated her political activity within Kadima
since the probe against Olmert was announced. Party sources say that
last week her camp stepped up their recruiting efforts, taking
hundreds of party membership applications from party headquarters

Source: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/989013.html
Back to top
  Ads
Advertising
Sponsor


¯Doug¦Ç
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:01 am    Post subject: Re: Queen Elizabeth II visits mosque, listens to Quran recit Reply with quote

No Jerry, she wants Islam to subjugate all Commonwealth countries
so the monarchy can rule once again! After all, the 7th century genocidal
religion of hatred and pedophilia and absolute monarchies go together
like peanut butter & jelly!

"Jerry Kraus" <jkraus_1999@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a5f1ff46-dd95-43e1-a126-51540716d623@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 1, 4:45 pm, Ramabriga <Ramabr...@gmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
Britain's Queen Elizabeth II, wearing a head scarf, visits the Ottoman era
Green mosque in
Bursa, western Turkey, Wednesday, May 14, 2008. Britain's Queen Elizabeth
II began her first
visit to Turkey in 37 years on Tuesday, praising the predominantly Muslim
country's role as a
bridge between West and the Islamic world. (AP Photo/Riza Ozel, Pool)

May 14, 2008

BURSA, Turkey—Queen Elizabeth II listened to a recital of the Quran at an
Ottoman-era mosque
Wednesday, the second day of a state visit to Turkey.
more stories like this

Her shoes removed and her head covered, the queen heard a religious
scholar recite verses from
the holy book at the 15th-century Green Mosque.

Earlier, the British monarch watched a traditional Ottoman shadow puppet
show and a fashion
show. She also visited a silk market in Bursa, a city that once was an
Ottoman capital.

The queen is making her first visit to Turkey in nearly 37 years to
highlight the importance
Britain attaches to the predominantly Muslim country that is vying for
European Union membership.

On Tuesday, she praised Turkey's role as a bridge between the West and the
Muslim world.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2008/05/14/queen...

** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**

She's about to convert to Islam. She's going to dump Phillip for some
young Muslim Hunk. Just like Diana. You watch.
Back to top
  Ads
Advertising
Sponsor


¯Doug¦Ç
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:19 am    Post subject: Re: The REAL Truth On 'Multiculturalism' And 'Diversity'! Reply with quote

Killing "palestinian terrorists" is always a good thing. The more
the better.

<globalcheckup@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:880240c3-7409-41c3-af34-aa3f1568daca@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 1, 5:50 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:


Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni served as a Paris agent for the Mossad
overseas intelligence agency in the 1980s during a series of missions
it ran to kill Palestinian terrorists across Europe, according to the
Sunday Times.

The report cites Livni's former colleagues as saying the Kadima
frontrunner was on active duty in 1983, when senior Palestine
Liberation Organization official Mamoun Meraish was shot dead by two
Mossad agents in Athens.

While Livni was not involved in the killing, her service in the
Mossad
remains secret, the report says. She had joined the agency after
completing her service in the Israel Defense Forces with a rank of
lieutenant and one year of law school.

According to the report, during Livni's service in the Mossad she
traveled from her Paris base throughout Europe, seeking out
Palestinian terrorists.

"Tzipi was not an office girl," the report quotes an acquaintance of
Livni as saying. "She was a clever woman with an IQ of 150. She
blended in well in European capitals, working with male agents, most
of them ex-commandos, taking out Arab terrorists."

Livni resigned from the agency in the 1980s and returned to Israel to
complete her legal degree, citing the stress of the job, the Sunday
Times wrote.

The foreign minister is seen as the heir to the Kadima party, once
primary elections have been held. Last week, she broke her silence
regarding the investigation against Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and
called for fresh elections amid the corruption case.

A recent Haaretz-Dialog poll indicated that a Livni-led Kadima would
garner 23 Knesset seats, compared to a predicted 29 seats for
opposition leader Benjamin Netanyahu's Likud party.

Livni has greatly accelerated her political activity within Kadima
since the probe against Olmert was announced. Party sources say that
last week her camp stepped up their recruiting efforts, taking
hundreds of party membership applications from party headquarters

Source: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/989013.html
Back to top
  Ads
Advertising
Sponsor


David Johnston
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:36 am    Post subject: Re: The REAL Truth On 'Multiculturalism' And 'Diversity'! Reply with quote

On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 15:39:42 -0700 (PDT),
ourfreedomandliberty@lycos.com wrote:

Quote:
to the detriment of others. While attempting to promote the
brotherhood of man by dissolving the ethnic identification of
gentiles, Jews have maintained precisely the kind of intense group
solidarity they decry as immoral in others.

Marx was the child of a Jewish father who converted to Lutheranism.
He was personally an atheist, and one who wrote an essay denouncing
Jews as money grubbers and suggesting that in his utopian future
Judaism would be eliminated. He married a non-Jew (a German
aristocrat), and fathered five children who were also non-Jews.

In what way does this behaviour demonstrate his intense group
solidarity?
Back to top
  Ads
Advertising
Sponsor


Seon F
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:13 am    Post subject: Re: Queen Elizabeth II visits mosque, listens to Quran recit Reply with quote

"¯Doug¦Ç" <noünen@now.com> wrote in message
news:80F0k.4118$jI5.1312@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...
Quote:
No Jerry, she wants Islam to subjugate all Commonwealth countries
so the monarchy can rule once again! After all, the 7th century genocidal
religion of hatred and pedophilia and absolute monarchies go together
like peanut butter & jelly!

Your wrong about the paranoia hysteria of the Queen wanting Islam to take

over but your right, Islam and the monarch have been responsible for
terrible acts of injustice and barbaric throughout history. they go together
well.
Back to top
  Ads
Advertising
Sponsor


Polly the Parrot
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:02 am    Post subject: Re: The REAL Truth On 'Multiculturalism' And 'Diversity'! Reply with quote

On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 17:01:12 -0700 (PDT) globalcheckup@yahoo.ca wrote:

Quote:
Another Israeli Assassin To Get Promoted? Israeli Ex-Foreign Minister
& Prime Ministerial Hopeful Was A Mossad Hit Agent!


So what?
Back to top
  Ads
Advertising
Sponsor


Guest






PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:59 pm    Post subject: Re: The REAL Truth On 'Multiculturalism' And 'Diversity'! Reply with quote

On Jun 1, 9:19 pm, "¯Doug¦Ç" <noün...@now.com> wrote:
Quote:
Killing "palestinian terrorists" is always a good thing. The more
the better.

globalchec...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message

news:880240c3-7409-41c3-af34-aa3f1568daca@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 1, 5:50 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni served as a Paris agent for the Mossad
overseas intelligence agency in the 1980s during a series of missions
it ran to kill Palestinian terrorists across Europe, according to the
Sunday Times.


Gary Rumain of Silver Spring, MD, the noted Jewish internet hate-
monger posting as "¯Doug¦Ç", neglected to mention that Mossad
terrorist assassination squads are now prowling everywhere, a
murderous global extension of the Israeli occultic cabal:

Israel To Kill On U.S., Allies' Soil

By Richard Sale
UPI Intelligence Correspondent
From the Washington Politics & Policy Desk
Published 1/15/2003 4:17 PM

Israel is embarking upon a more aggressive approach to the war on
terror that will include staging targeted killings in the United
States and other friendly countries, former Israeli intelligence
officials told United Press International.

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has forbidden the practice until
now, these sources said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The Israeli statements were confirmed by more than a half dozen U.S.
foreign policy and intelligence officials in interviews with UPI.

With the appointment of Meir Dagan, the new director Israel's Mossad
secret intelligence service, Sharon is also preparing "a huge budget"
increase for the spy agency as part of "a tougher stance in fighting
global jihad (or holy war)," one Israeli official said.

Since Sharon became Israeli prime minister, Tel Aviv has mainly
limited its practice of targeted killings to the West Bank and Gaza
because "no one wanted such operations on their territory," a former
Israeli intelligence official said.

Another former Israeli government official said that under Sharon,
"diplomatic constraints have prevented the Mossad from carrying out
'preventive operations' (targeted killings) on the soil of friendly
countries until now."

He said Sharon is "reversing that policy, even if it risks
complications to Israel's bilateral relations."

A former Israeli military intelligence source agreed: "What Sharon
wants is a much more extensive and tough approach to global terrorism,
and this includes greater operational maneuverability."

Does this mean assassinations on the soil of allies?

"It does," he said.

"Mossad is definitely being beefed up," a U.S. government official
said of the Israeli agency's budget increase. He declined to comment
on the Tel Aviv's geographic expansion of targeted killings.

An FBI spokesman also declined to comment, saying: "This is a policy
matter. We only enforce federal laws."

A congressional staff member with deep knowledge of intelligence
matters said, "I don't know on what basis we would be able to protest
Israel's actions." He referred to the recent killing of Qaed Salim
Sinan al Harethi, a top al Qaida leader, in Yemen by a remotely
controlled CIA drone.

"That was done on the soil of a friendly ally," the staffer said.

But the complications posed by Israel's new policy are real.

"Israel does not have a good record at doing this sort of thing," said
former CIA counter-terrorism official Larry Johnson.

He cited the 1997 fiasco where two Mossad agents were captured after
they tried to assassinate Khaled Mashaal, a Hamas political leader, by
injecting him with poison.

According to Johnson, the attempt, made in Amman, Jordan, caused a
political crisis in Israeli-Jordan relations. In addition, because the
Israeli agents carried Canadian passports, Canada withdrew its
ambassador in protest, he said. Jordan is one of two Arab nations to
recognize Israel. The other is Egypt.

At the time, Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu said, "I have
no intention of stopping the activities of this government against
terror," according to a CNN report.

Former CIA officials say Israel was forced to free jailed Hamas
founder Sheikh Ahmad Yassin and 70 other Jordanian and Palestinian
prisoner being held in Israeli jails to secure the release of the two
would-be Mossad assassins.

Phil Stoddard, former director of the Middle East Institute, cited a
botched plot to kill Ali Hassan Salemeh, the mastermind of the 1972
Munich Olympics massacre. The 1974 attempt severely embarrassed Mossad
when the Israeli hit team mistakenly assassinated a Moroccan waiter in
Lillehammer, Norway.

Salemeh, later a CIA asset, was killed in Beirut, Lebanon, in 1976 by
a car bomb placed by an Israeli assassination team, former U.S.
intelligence officials said.

"Israel knew Salemeh was providing us with preventive intelligence on
the Palestinians and his being killed pissed off a lot of people,"
said a former senior CIA official.

But some Israeli operations have been successful.

Gerald Bull, an Ontario-born U.S. citizen and designer of the Iraqi
supergun -- a massive artillery system capable of launching satellites
into orbit, and of delivering nuclear chemical or biological payloads
from Baghdad to Israel -- was killed in Belgium in March 1990. The
killing is still unsolved, but former CIA officials said a Mossad hit
team is the most likely suspect.

Bull worked on the supergun design -- codenamed Project Babylon -- for
10 years, and helped the Iraqis develop many smaller artillery
systems. He was found with five bullets in his head outside his
Brussels apartment.

Israeli hit teams, which consist of units or squadrons of the Kidon, a
sub-unit for Mossad's highly secret Metsada department, would stage
the operations, former Israeli intelligence sources said. Kidon is a
Hebrew word meaning "bayonet," one former Israeli intelligence source
said.

This Israeli government source explained that in the past Israel has
not staged targeted killings in friendly countries because "no one
wanted such operations on their territory."

This has become irrelevant, he said.

Dagan, the new hard-driving director of Mossad, will implement the new
changes, former Israeli government officials said.

Dagan, nicknamed "the gun," was Sharon's adviser on counter-terrorism
during the government of Netanyahu in 1996, former Israeli government
officials say. A former military man, Dagan has also undertaken
extremely sensitive diplomatic missions for several of Israel's prime
ministers, former Israeli government sources said.

Former Israel Defense Forces Lt. Col. Gal Luft, who served under
Dagan, described him as an "extremely creative individual -- creative
to the point of recklessness."

A former CIA official who knows Dagan said the new Mossad director
knows "his foreign affairs inside and out," and has a "real killer
instinct."

Dagan is also "an intelligence natural" who has "a superb analyst not
afraid to act on gut instinct," the former CIA official said.

Dagan has already removed Mossad officials whom he regards as "being
too conservative or too cautious" and is building up "a constituency
of senior people of the same mentality," one former long-time Israeli
operative said.

Dagan is also urging that Mossad operatives rely less on secret
sources and rely more on open information that is so plentifully
provided on the Internet and newspapers.

"It's a cultural thing," one former Israeli intelligence operative
explained. "Mossad in the past has put its emphasis on Humint (human
intelligence) and secret operations and has neglected the whole field
of open media, which has become extremely important."

Regarding Mossad's new policy and budget increase, Kim Farber an
Israeli Embassy official said, "There is so little information
available on this, there is nothing I can add."

Source:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARCHIVE/United%20Press%20International%20Israel%20to%20kill%20on%20U_S_,%20allies''%20soil.htm
Back to top
  Ads
Advertising
Sponsor


Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Science Talk Forum Index -> Politics All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Australian Debt Consolidation Experts
medical insurance
Wedding Website
Annunci di escort e accompagnatrici a Rimini, Padova, Treviso, in Riviera Adriatica, in Versilia ...
Swingers France
Social Sciences Talk
Motor Insurance
Make Your Own Website
Free phone calls to Canada
Long island Cleaning service
black mold
UK Swingers Genuine Contacts Site
cleaning supplies
Eureka Vacuum Parts


Board Security

192 Attacks blocked

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group