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Gabriel
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 Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:54 am Post subject: More scientific evidence of the flood of the BibleA new stud |
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http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn13948-earth-canyon-hints-at-ancient-megafloods-on-mars.html
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2008/05/31/news-to-note-05312008#one
".. it’s incredibly ironic that scientists have, time and again,
referred to flooding (even planet-wide flooding) on Mars, which
today appears to have no liquid water, yet these same scientists
laugh at the prospect of a worldwide flood on Earth, which is
mostly covered with water already! .. "
============================================================
A new study of Idaho’s Box Canyon suggests the canyon was formed
by “a megaflood—a catastrophic outpouring of massive amounts of
water in a relatively short period.”
The study, led by Michael Lamb of the University of
California–Berkeley, investigated the snake-like Box Canyon in
Idaho. Generally a box canyon is a narrow, flat-bottom canyon
with steep walls that is closed off at one end (and thus has only
one entrance/exit)—“amphitheater-headed,” as the researchers call
Box Canyon.
The prevailing wisdom among uniformitarians is that box canyons
are formed slowly, as groundwater seeps out and erodes the canyon
away. Obviously, it would take millions of years for canyons of
such size to be carved by seeping groundwater—millions of years
many are willing to presume existed.
But there’s a problem with the slow-and-gradual hypothesis,
Lamb’s team concluded: slow seepage could not move large boulders
downstream, as in Box Canyon; furthermore, Box Canyon is carved
out of hard, basaltic bedrock. “It requires a lot of water to
remove them,” Lamb said of the boulders.
Instead, it must have been a “megaflood,” the team reports, that
would have resulted in a “catastrophic outpouring of massive
amounts of water in a relatively short period.” The team also
acknowledges, as New Scientist reports, that “[s]uch megafloods
occurred numerous times in the western US several tens of
thousands of years ago and played a significant role in shaping
the landscape.”
Additionally, the team has carried their conclusion far from
Idaho—all the way to Mars, where similar canyons may also be
carved in the basaltic bedrock that forms much of Mars’s surface.
Thus, Lamb’s team thinks there may have once been a rainfall
cycle on Mars. For now, however, orbital images of the red planet
are not clear enough for scientists to determine what sort of
rock Martian canyons are carved into.
Lamb and his team believe that the “megaflood” that chiseled out
Box Canyon originated from the collapse of large lakes. They
believe these megafloods occurred frequently in prehistoric
times. But what is fascinating is that even as these secular
scientists credit more and more geological marvels to the work of
catastrophic floods, they refuse to consider the possibility that
it was the working of one tremendous worldwide flood—both in its
initiation and as the waters receded—that was responsible for
laying down and then cutting through the geological layers we see
today. Imagine it—a flood that involved rain from above and
fountains from below, that covered the then-highest mountains on
earth, and that took more than a year to recede. Such a fearsome
flood would have left more than a few reminders of its presence,
and we have God’s account of the destruction in Genesis.
What about the possibility of flooding on Mars? We’ve said in the
past (including in radio episodes of Answers . . . with Ken Ham)
that it’s incredibly ironic that scientists have, time and again,
referred to flooding (even planet-wide flooding) on Mars, which
today appears to have no liquid water, yet these same scientists
laugh at the prospect of a worldwide flood on Earth, which is
mostly covered with water already! The Bible says nothing about a
flood on Mars, of course, so as Christians we have no reason to
dogmatically accept or reject the idea. But the Bible is
abundantly clear that there really was a worldwide flood on
Earth, and scientists—secular and Christian—are time and time
again uncovering evidence of the Flood. Let’s not forget what the
Flood was—and what it represented! |
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Steven J.
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:54 am Post subject: Re: More scientific evidence of the flood of the Bib leA new |
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On May 31, 10:54 pm, Gabriel <gabriel_bapt...@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn13948-earth-canyon-hints-at-a...
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2008/05/31/news-to-note-0531...
-- [snip]
Lamb and his team believe that the “megaflood” that chiseled out
Box Canyon originated from the collapse of large lakes. They
believe these megafloods occurred frequently in prehistoric
times. But what is fascinating is that even as these secular
scientists credit more and more geological marvels to the work of
catastrophic floods, they refuse to consider the possibility that
it was the working of one tremendous worldwide flood—both in its
initiation and as the waters receded—that was responsible for
laying down and then cutting through the geological layers we see
today. Imagine it—a flood that involved rain from above and
fountains from below, that covered the then-highest mountains on
earth, and that took more than a year to recede. Such a fearsome
flood would have left more than a few reminders of its presence,
and we have God’s account of the destruction in Genesis.
There are a number of perfectly good reasons that secular scientists |
refuse to consider a global flood. First, consider what AiG is
proposing here: that the layers of sedimentary rocks through which the
canyon cuts were, themselves, laid down by a global flood over the
previous year. That's VERY fast sedimentation, and the sediments
would still have been water-logged, like layers of alternating mud and
quicksand. The canyon walls wouldn't have remained standing nearly
vertical as the waters cut channels through them; they would have
quickly collapsed.
Of course, there are other problems, such as where all that water came
from, and went to. AiG doesn't propose that God somehow provided,
then whisked away, extra water equivalent to three times the total
volume of the Earth's oceans (which would be necessary to cover the
highest mountains existing now). Instead, they propose a primitive
Earth of flat plains and shallow seas, in which the ocean basins
became catastrophically deeper and mountains shot up faster than
bamboo in the last months of the flood. Of course, the system of
massive faults and breaks that would be expected to accompany such
rapid movements of rock up and down are not observed, and while there
are a number of canyons and channeled scablands formed by huge local
floods, geologists do not find the channeled scablands around the rims
of every continent that would be expected from the run-off of a global
flood. Nor, of course, do those supposedly flood-laid sediments mix,
e.g. the ichthyosaurs and cetaceans that YECs like AiG insist lived
together in the same ecology at the same time.
| Quote: |
What about the possibility of flooding on Mars? We’ve said in the
past (including in radio episodes of Answers . . . with Ken Ham)
that it’s incredibly ironic that scientists have, time and again,
referred to flooding (even planet-wide flooding) on Mars, which
today appears to have no liquid water, yet these same scientists
laugh at the prospect of a worldwide flood on Earth, which is
mostly covered with water already! The Bible says nothing about a
flood on Mars, of course, so as Christians we have no reason to
dogmatically accept or reject the idea. But the Bible is
abundantly clear that there really was a worldwide flood on
Earth, and scientists—secular and Christian—are time and time
again uncovering evidence of the Flood. Let’s not forget what the
Flood was—and what it represented!
I have never heard of any suggestion that all of Mars might have been |
underwater at one time, although there are many suggestions that it
might have had oceans tens of millions of years ago. Of course, with
Mars' lower gravity and thinner air, it is easier to explain how huge
quantities of water might have been lost from the planet through
photodisassociation and subsequent escape of gases from the planet.
On Earth, as noted, the geological record does not look like the
result of a global flood, but of successive local inundations of parts
of the planet while other parts remained dry and above water.
-- Steven J. |
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Bill M
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:48 pm Post subject: Re: More scientific evidence of the flood of the BibleA new |
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There is NO scientifically confirmed evidence of the Noah flood. This fairy
tale has no basis in fact.
Noah and the Ark
The Bible is claimed to be the inerrant word of God
The story of Noah and the flood is only one of many ridiculous biblical
tales with no authentication or plausibility of any kind. It is an
impossible story.
1. The largest boat ever built to this day could not even come CLOSE to
housing Noah, his sons, wives and two of every type of animal on earth. And
this was a boat built of wood many thousands of years ago. There are 1.7
million KNOWN species of animals on this planet. The largest modern cruise
ships only hold 3500 passengers and crew. Noah would have to have built a
wooden ship 485 times larger than the largest modern passenger ships of
today! This story is patently impossible, using only materials and tools
available to Noah, to build an arch large enough to hold all these
creatures, together with suitable environments for each of them to live in,
keeping them all separated so they don't kill and eat each other. And then
provide room and an environment for many hundreds of millions of known
species of insects, plants, molds etc. on this planet?
2. In order to capture two (or seven) of each animal in the world, Noah
would have to travel the whole world and capture them. This is an
impossibility even with modern means of travel and transport much less
ancient ravel on foot and by donkey!
3. Where did they house all of the new born during this ten month
escapade?
4. In addition, the ship would have to carry a TEN MONTHS supply of food
and fresh water for the people and thousands of animals for them to survive.
What would the carnivores have eaten? Whatever prey they ate would have gone
extinct. How did they dispose of the thousands of tons of feces? It must
have been one stinking ship!
5. Now according to the Bible the earth was flooded for ten months. This
would kill off all the vegetation. What did the animals eat for an
additional year or more after the flood subsided?
6. Noah sends a dove out to see if there was any dry land. But the dove
returns without finding any. Then, just seven days later, the dove goes out
again and returns with an olive leaf. But how could an olive tree survive
the flood? And if any seeds happened to survive, they certainly wouldn't
germinate and grow leaves within a seven day period. 8:8-11.
7. And according to this myth, Noah was also over 600 years old!
This is a grossly implausible tale that ranks as a greater tale than Santa
Claus, The Wizard of Oz, The Easter Bunny and The Tooth Fairy!
Genesis 6:6
6 The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was
filled with pain.
7 So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face
of the earth: men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and
birds of the air-for I am grieved that I have made them."
9 Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he
walked with God.
Genesis 7
1- The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family,
because I have found you righteous in this generation. 2 -Take with you
seven [a] of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of
every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 - and also seven of
every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive
throughout the earth. 4 - Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth
for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth
every living creature I have made."
6 - Noah was six hundred years old when the floodwaters came on the earth.
7 - And Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives entered the ark
to escape the waters of the flood. 8 - Pairs of clean and unclean animals,
of birds and of all creatures that move along the ground, 9 - male and
female, came to Noah and entered the ark, as God had commanded Noah. 10 -
And after the seven days the floodwaters came on the earth.
This is patently ridiculous and impossible. How could they capture and load
over three million animals in a period of seven days???
11 - In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the
second month-on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and
the floodgates of the heavens were opened. 12 - And rain fell on the earth
forty days and forty nights.
13 - On that very day Noah and his sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth, together
with his wife and the wives of his three sons, entered the ark. 14 - They
had with them every wild animal according to its kind, all livestock
according to their kinds, every creature that moves along the ground
according to its kind and every bird according to its kind, everything with
wings. 15 - Pairs of all creatures that have the breath of life in them came
to Noah and entered the ark. 16 -The animals going in were male and female
of every living thing, as God had commanded Noah. Then the LORD shut him in.
17 - For forty days the flood kept coming on the earth, and as the waters
increased they lifted the ark high above the earth. 18 -The waters rose and
increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the
water. 19 - They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under
the entire heavens were covered. 20 The waters rose and covered the
mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet. [, 21 - Every living thing
that moved on the earth perished-birds, livestock, wild animals, all the
creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. 22 - Everything on dry
land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 -Every living
thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; men and animals and the
creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped
from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.
24 - The waters flooded the earth for a hundred and fifty days.
This of course would have also killed all the vegetation on Earth!
Genesis 7:6 (New International Version)
6 Noah was "six hundred" years old when the floodwaters came on the earth.
7 -And Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives entered the ark to
escape the waters of the flood
Genesis 8
1 - But God remembered Noah and all the wild animals and the livestock that
were with him in the ark, and he sent a wind over the earth, and the waters
receded.
3 - The water receded steadily from the earth. At the end of the hundred and
fifty days the water had gone down,
4 - and on the seventeenth day of the seventh month the ark came to rest on
the mountains of Ararat.
5 -The waters continued to recede until the tenth month, and on the first
day of the tenth month the tops of the mountains became visible
And what did they eat until all the vegetation recovered from the flood???
Genesis 9 God's Covenant with Noah
1 -Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and
increase in number and fill the earth.
2 -The fear and dread of you will fall upon all the beasts of the earth and
all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along the ground,
and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hands.
3 Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you
the green plants, I now give you everything.
4 - "But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it.
5 - And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand
an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an
accounting for the life of his fellow man.
Before man learned how to create a fire, he had no choice but to eat raw
meat! |
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James
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:44 am Post subject: Re: More scientific evidence of the flood of the BibleA new |
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| Quote: |
"Steven J." <steven_j@altavista.com
Re: More scientific evidence of the flood of the BibleA new study of Idaho’s Box Canyon suggests the canyon was formed by “a megaflood—a catastrophic outpouring of massive amounts of water in a relatively short period.”
On May 31, 10:54 pm, Gabriel <gabriel_bapt...@hotmail.com> wrote:
http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn13948-earth-canyon-hints-at-a...
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2008/05/31/news-to-note-0531...
-- [snip]
Lamb and his team believe that the “megaflood” that chiseled out
Box Canyon originated from the collapse of large lakes. They
believe these megafloods occurred frequently in prehistoric
times. But what is fascinating is that even as these secular
scientists credit more and more geological marvels to the work of
catastrophic floods, they refuse to consider the possibility that
it was the working of one tremendous worldwide flood—both in its
initiation and as the waters receded—that was responsible for
laying down and then cutting through the geological layers we see
today. Imagine it—a flood that involved rain from above and
fountains from below, that covered the then-highest mountains on
earth, and that took more than a year to recede. Such a fearsome
flood would have left more than a few reminders of its presence,
and we have God’s account of the destruction in Genesis.
There are a number of perfectly good reasons that secular scientists
refuse to consider a global flood. First, consider what AiG is
proposing here: that the layers of sedimentary rocks through which the
canyon cuts were, themselves, laid down by a global flood over the
previous year. That's VERY fast sedimentation, and the sediments
would still have been water-logged, like layers of alternating mud and
quicksand. The canyon walls wouldn't have remained standing nearly
vertical as the waters cut channels through them; they would have
quickly collapsed.
Of course, there are other problems, such as where all that water came
from, and went to. AiG doesn't propose that God somehow provided,
then whisked away, extra water equivalent to three times the total
volume of the Earth's oceans (which would be necessary to cover the
highest mountains existing now). Instead, they propose a primitive
Earth of flat plains and shallow seas, in which the ocean basins
became catastrophically deeper and mountains shot up faster than
bamboo in the last months of the flood. Of course, the system of
massive faults and breaks that would be expected to accompany such
rapid movements of rock up and down are not observed, and while there
are a number of canyons and channeled scablands formed by huge local
floods, geologists do not find the channeled scablands around the rims
of every continent that would be expected from the run-off of a global
flood. Nor, of course, do those supposedly flood-laid sediments mix,
e.g. the ichthyosaurs and cetaceans that YECs like AiG insist lived
together in the same ecology at the same time.
What about the possibility of flooding on Mars? We’ve said in the
past (including in radio episodes of Answers . . . with Ken Ham)
that it’s incredibly ironic that scientists have, time and again,
referred to flooding (even planet-wide flooding) on Mars, which
today appears to have no liquid water, yet these same scientists
laugh at the prospect of a worldwide flood on Earth, which is
mostly covered with water already! The Bible says nothing about a
flood on Mars, of course, so as Christians we have no reason to
dogmatically accept or reject the idea. But the Bible is
abundantly clear that there really was a worldwide flood on
Earth, and scientists—secular and Christian—are time and time
again uncovering evidence of the Flood. Let’s not forget what the
Flood was—and what it represented!
I have never heard of any suggestion that all of Mars might have been
underwater at one time, although there are many suggestions that it
might have had oceans tens of millions of years ago. Of course, with
Mars' lower gravity and thinner air, it is easier to explain how huge
quantities of water might have been lost from the planet through
photodisassociation and subsequent escape of gases from the planet.
On Earth, as noted, the geological record does not look like the
result of a global flood, but of successive local inundations of parts
of the planet while other parts remained dry and above water.
-- Steven J.
|
Steven,
Actually, no one knows the exact effect that amount of global water
would have on the planet earth. Such tremendous pressures etc, would
certainly cause great geological changes. (such as changes in
mountains etc)
But to answer where did all the water come from and go? First, your
looking at it. The earth is about 3/4 covered in water. There would
have be a great quantity of water around from the flood waters that
drained. And there is a lot of water around. We can't just throw that
out of the window and say 'that's no proof'. It certainly would have
to be part of the evidence if there really was a global flood, right?
If the earth was practically dry on the surface such as Mars, then
such a flood would be in question. But the earth's surface is mainly a
'liquid' planet.
Also, the quantity of water would have to be enough to cover all the
world's land. This publication, "The Sea" states:
"If all the irregularities on the earth's surface were to be smoothed
out, both above and below the water, so that there were no dents or
holes anywhere, no land would show at all. The ocean would cover the
entire globe to a depth of 8000 feet."
Also the Bible said the highest mountains had to be covered with
water. There isn't enough water to cover all the highest mountains of
today. But notice a past comment from "The Scientific Monthly"
concerning the earth's earlier days:
"there were no high mountains forming physical or climatic barriers"
Thus without real high mountains (like Everest) existing back then,
there is more of a chance that the water we have today on the planet
could have covered all the land areas if the geologic conditions were
the same as back then.
But back to your question, where did all that water come from to start
with? The Bible answers that question. In summary, the Bible tells us
that a great water canopy originally surrounded the earth. It was the
falling of that great quantity of water that resulted in the global
deluge. Here are the details as recorded in the Genesis account: Ge
1:1 reads:
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." (NIV)
The sun is now created and shinning brightly.
Verse 2 also talks about how the very early earth looked.
Thus from verses 1 and 2, we have the sun already created, as well as
the earth, along with other stars, the moon, galaxies, etc. In the
next set of verses (3-31), God is going to tell us what He did to
prepare this newly created "earth" for the arrival of mankind. He will
divide those periods of creative activities into 6 undefined lengths
called a "day". (In the first two chapters of Genesis, the word "day"
has 4 different meanings.)
But if the sun is shinning brightly, why was there "darkness" on the
surface of the earth? (vs 2) God didn't say that there was darkness
throughout the universe, only darkness on the earth's "SURFACE".
Obviously something was blocking the light. (Also, the confusion of
most people lies in verses 14-19. A close look at the original words
used, clears up the apparent contradiction. But to get a fuller
understanding, a look at vs 6-8 is also necessary.)
Notice Ge 1:6-8 talks about a division between waters and waters. This
isn't land because it talks about land in verses 9,10. In verse 7 God
talks about waters "above the expanse". What is this expanse?
Genesis indicates that at the very beginning of the earth, there was
no clear division or open space, but that the entire globe was
enveloped in water vapor. This also accords with scientific reasoning
on the early stages of the planet's formation and the view that at one
time all of earth's water existed in the form of water vapor because
of the extreme heat of the earth's surface at that point. Also, right
at this point (vs 2) the water vapor was of such a makeup, that it
blocked the light from reaching the surface. (this shouldn't be so
hard to conceive, since even today under certain adverse local weather
conditions, day can become as night.)
Then God adjusted the water vapor to let some light get through. (vs
3) However this light is highly diffused and no celestial objects are
discernable. (like an heavy overcast day) This agrees with the Hebrew
word used for "light" here in verse 3. The word is "ohr", which means
light in a general sense. But in verse 14 the Hebrew word is 'maohr'
which refers to a luminary or a source of light. (So evidently more
changes were about to occur in relation to the water canopy above the
earth in vs 14.)
Next God divided up this envelope of water into two sections. He let
the first section cover the surface. He then allowed an atmosphere to
form (expanse). And on top of this expanse (atmosphere), was the
second section of that water vapor. So right at this point we have the
earth covered with water on the surface, an atmosphere, and a great
cloud canopy of waters at the upper limits of that atmosphere. (vs
6-
In verse 16 notice it doesn't use the Hebrew word 'bara' meaning
'create' (as in vs 1), instead it uses the Hebrew word 'asah' meaning
'make'. Since the "heavens" in verse 1 already contained the sun,
moon, and stars, then the statement in verse 15 meant that these
luminaries now became visible as distinct celestial objects through
the water canopy as observed from the surface of the earth so that
when humans arrived on the scene, they would be able to use them to
keep track of time, etc.
So the main source of extra water needed to flood the whole earth,
came from that large water canopy in the upper atmosphere.
Thus there is every reason to consider the Genesis account as being a
real occurrence. I have never seen the Bible be wrong in scientific
matters, and have no reason to doubt its record of a global flood in
the days of Noah since many of its descriptions are in harmony with
present day science.
Sincerely, James
If you wish to have a discussion with me, please use email since I do
not follow all conversations in ng threads
***********************************
Want a FREE home Bible study?
Have Jehovah's Witnesses Questions?
Go to the authorized source:
http://www.watchtower.org
*********************************** |
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TimK
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:14 am Post subject: Re: More scientific evidence of the flood of the BibleA new |
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"James" <bireda@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:ummf641tvqi3185g7j2hjt7dseq8tfon78@4ax.com...
| Quote: |
"Steven J." <steven_j@altavista.com
|
Turning to the bible to explain nature is a fool's errand.
hth |
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vernono
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:26 am Post subject: Re: More scientific evidence of the flood of the BibleA new |
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"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:6bV9k.7172$1I.6294@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
| Quote: |
There is NO scientifically confirmed evidence of the Noah flood. This
fairy tale has no basis in fact.
Noah and the Ark
The Bible is claimed to be the inerrant word of God
The story of Noah and the flood is only one of many ridiculous biblical
tales with no authentication or plausibility of any kind. It is an
impossible story.
1. The largest boat ever built to this day could not even come CLOSE
to housing Noah, his sons, wives and two of every type of animal on earth.
And this was a boat built of wood many thousands of years ago.
|
Too bad you have no education and have never researched this before.
Noah's flood or not, the size of the supposed ark has been shown feasible
over and over.
Find out what a species is. DUUUHHH |
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Ralph
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:43 am Post subject: Re: More scientific evidence of the flood of the BibleA new |
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"vernono" <vernono@there.com> wrote in message
news:GKV9k.7481$5y2.1544@fe113.usenetserver.com...
| Quote: |
"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:6bV9k.7172$1I.6294@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
There is NO scientifically confirmed evidence of the Noah flood. This
fairy tale has no basis in fact.
Noah and the Ark
The Bible is claimed to be the inerrant word of God
The story of Noah and the flood is only one of many ridiculous biblical
tales with no authentication or plausibility of any kind. It is an
impossible story.
1. The largest boat ever built to this day could not even come CLOSE
to housing Noah, his sons, wives and two of every type of animal on
earth. And this was a boat built of wood many thousands of years ago.
Too bad you have no education and have never researched this before.
Noah's flood or not, the size of the supposed ark has been shown feasible
over and over.
Find out what a species is. DUUUHHH
|
Gee Vernon, I've researched it and find the idea of the story of Noah to be
riddled with physical impossibilities. |
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Cory Albrecht
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:21 am Post subject: Re: More scientific evidence of the flood of the BibleA new |
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James wrote:
| Quote: |
So the main source of extra water needed to flood the whole earth,
came from that large water canopy in the upper atmosphere.
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The vapor canopy hypothesis, eh?
From <http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/canopy.html>:
First, let us look at atmospheric pressure. For the earth's atmosphere,
the pressure is almost exactly hydrostatic, since it is held to the
earth by gravity and velocities are too low to significantly change the
pressure. In plain language this means that the air pressure at any
point is equal to the weight of the air in a unit area column above that
point. At sea level, air pressure in US engineering units is about 14.5
pounds/sq inch because a column of air one inch square extending to the
top of the atmosphere weighs (Guess what!?) 14.5 pounds. On top of Mt.
Everest, the pressure is lower because the lowest and densest 9km of the
atmosphere is below that point.
Now the "vapor canopy" would form a part of the atmosphere, being a body
of gas (water vapor) gravitationally held to the earth. It would in fact
be most of the pre-flood atmosphere. There would have to be enough vapor
to form 9km of liquid, when condensed, and, therefore the vapor would
weigh as much as 9km of water. The pressure at the earth's surface,
where Noah and family lived, would be equal to one atmosphere PLUS the
weight of a 9km column of water of unit area. This is equivalent to the
pressure 9km deep in the ocean. What is this pressure? Well, each 10m of
water is roughly equivalent to one atmosphere, so the pressure would be
900 atmospheres. The atmosphere would also have a composition of about
900 parts water vapor to one part of what we call air today.
How could an atmosphere almost 100% water vapor not condense? The
temperature would have to be raised to the point where the partial
pressure of water equals 900 atmospheres, i.e. the boiling point at that
pressure. So we find Noah et al. living in a 13,000psi boiler. Is this
credible?
| Quote: |
Thus there is every reason to consider the Genesis account as being a
real occurrence. I have never seen the Bible be wrong in scientific
matters, and have no reason to doubt its record of a global flood in
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Never? Did you miss that part where the Bible says the rabbit chews its cut?
| Quote: |
the days of Noah since many of its descriptions are in harmony with
present day science.
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No, they aren't. The Bible is not a science textbook and it is a mistake
to read it as one. |
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john w
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:23 am Post subject: Re: More scientific evidence of the flood of the BibleA new |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:48:01 +0100, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
© 2008 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
| Quote: |
There is NO scientifically confirmed evidence of the Noah flood. This fairy
tale has no basis in fact.
|
^ ^ ^ ^ LOL!!! Roll on the floor, laughing my ASS off.
| Quote: |
Noah and the Ark
The Bible is claimed to be the inerrant word of God
The story of Noah and the flood is only one of many ridiculous biblical
tales with no authentication or plausibility of any kind. It is an
impossible story.
1. The largest boat ever built to this day could not even come CLOSE to
housing Noah, his sons, wives and two of every type of animal on earth. And
this was a boat built of wood many thousands of years ago. There are 1.7
million KNOWN species of animals on this planet. The largest modern cruise
ships only hold 3500 passengers and crew. Noah would have to have built a
wooden ship 485 times larger than the largest modern passenger ships of
today! This story is patently impossible, using only materials and tools
available to Noah, to build an arch large enough to hold all these
creatures, together with suitable environments for each of them to live in,
keeping them all separated so they don't kill and eat each other. And then
provide room and an environment for many hundreds of millions of known
species of insects, plants, molds etc. on this planet?
2. In order to capture two (or seven) of each animal in the world, Noah
would have to travel the whole world and capture them. This is an
impossibility even with modern means of travel and transport much less
ancient ravel on foot and by donkey!
3. Where did they house all of the new born during this ten month
escapade?
4. In addition, the ship would have to carry a TEN MONTHS supply of food
and fresh water for the people and thousands of animals for them to survive.
What would the carnivores have eaten? Whatever prey they ate would have gone
extinct. How did they dispose of the thousands of tons of feces? It must
have been one stinking ship!
5. Now according to the Bible the earth was flooded for ten months. This
would kill off all the vegetation. What did the animals eat for an
additional year or more after the flood subsided?
6. Noah sends a dove out to see if there was any dry land. But the dove
returns without finding any. Then, just seven days later, the dove goes out
again and returns with an olive leaf. But how could an olive tree survive
the flood? And if any seeds happened to survive, they certainly wouldn't
germinate and grow leaves within a seven day period. 8:8-11.
7. And according to this myth, Noah was also over 600 years old!
This is a grossly implausible tale that ranks as a greater tale than Santa
Claus, The Wizard of Oz, The Easter Bunny and The Tooth Fairy!
Genesis 6:6
6 The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was
filled with pain.
7 So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face
of the earth: men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and
birds of the air-for I am grieved that I have made them."
9 Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he
walked with God.
Genesis 7
1- The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family,
because I have found you righteous in this generation. 2 -Take with you
seven [a] of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of
every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 - and also seven of
every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive
throughout the earth. 4 - Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth
for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth
every living creature I have made."
6 - Noah was six hundred years old when the floodwaters came on the earth.
7 - And Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives entered the ark
to escape the waters of the flood. 8 - Pairs of clean and unclean animals,
of birds and of all creatures that move along the ground, 9 - male and
female, came to Noah and entered the ark, as God had commanded Noah. 10 -
And after the seven days the floodwaters came on the earth.
This is patently ridiculous and impossible. How could they capture and load
over three million animals in a period of seven days???
11 - In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the
second month-on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and
the floodgates of the heavens were opened. 12 - And rain fell on the earth
forty days and forty nights.
13 - On that very day Noah and his sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth, together
with his wife and the wives of his three sons, entered the ark. 14 - They
had with them every wild animal according to its kind, all livestock
according to their kinds, every creature that moves along the ground
according to its kind and every bird according to its kind, everything with
wings. 15 - Pairs of all creatures that have the breath of life in them came
to Noah and entered the ark. 16 -The animals going in were male and female
of every living thing, as God had commanded Noah. Then the LORD shut him in.
17 - For forty days the flood kept coming on the earth, and as the waters
increased they lifted the ark high above the earth. 18 -The waters rose and
increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the
water. 19 - They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under
the entire heavens were covered. 20 The waters rose and covered the
mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet. [, 21 - Every living thing
that moved on the earth perished-birds, livestock, wild animals, all the
creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. 22 - Everything on dry
land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 -Every living
thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; men and animals and the
creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped
from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.
24 - The waters flooded the earth for a hundred and fifty days.
This of course would have also killed all the vegetation on Earth!
Genesis 7:6 (New International Version)
6 Noah was "six hundred" years old when the floodwaters came on the earth.
7 -And Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives entered the ark to
escape the waters of the flood
Genesis 8
1 - But God remembered Noah and all the wild animals and the livestock that
were with him in the ark, and he sent a wind over the earth, and the waters
receded.
3 - The water receded steadily from the earth. At the end of the hundred and
fifty days the water had gone down,
4 - and on the seventeenth day of the seventh month the ark came to rest on
the mountains of Ararat.
5 -The waters continued to recede until the tenth month, and on the first
day of the tenth month the tops of the mountains became visible
And what did they eat until all the vegetation recovered from the flood???
Genesis 9 God's Covenant with Noah
1 -Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and
increase in number and fill the earth.
2 -The fear and dread of you will fall upon all the beasts of the earth and
all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along the ground,
and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hands.
3 Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you
the green plants, I now give you everything.
4 - "But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it.
5 - And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand
an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an
accounting for the life of his fellow man.
Before man learned how to create a fire, he had no choice but to eat raw
meat!
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John Baker
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:20 am Post subject: Re: More scientific evidence of the flood of the BibleA new |
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On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 20:32:48 -0700, "vernono" <vernono@there.com>
wrote:
| Quote: |
"Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:OZV9k.7199$1I.1397@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
"vernono" <vernono@there.com> wrote in message
news:GKV9k.7481$5y2.1544@fe113.usenetserver.com...
"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:6bV9k.7172$1I.6294@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
There is NO scientifically confirmed evidence of the Noah flood. This
fairy tale has no basis in fact.
Noah and the Ark
The Bible is claimed to be the inerrant word of God
The story of Noah and the flood is only one of many ridiculous biblical
tales with no authentication or plausibility of any kind. It is an
impossible story.
1. The largest boat ever built to this day could not even come CLOSE
to housing Noah, his sons, wives and two of every type of animal on
earth. And this was a boat built of wood many thousands of years ago.
Too bad you have no education and have never researched this before.
Noah's flood or not, the size of the supposed ark has been shown feasible
over and over.
Find out what a species is. DUUUHHH
Gee Vernon, I've researched it and find the idea of the story of Noah to
be riddled with physical impossibilities.
No you haven't. you have read anti- bible "stories".
Get over it. You haven't studied plain secular archeology or geology either.
|
Suppose you "educate" us then, moron.
Come on, Vern. Put your money where your big, fat, stupid mouth is.
Show us how the flood story is in any way compatible with what we know
of physics. Prove it's anything other than a Bronze Age fairy tale.
Ten bucks says you can't even begin to.
> |
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John Baker
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:28 am Post subject: Re: More scientific evidence of the flood of the BibleA new |
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On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 17:26:22 -0700, "vernono" <vernono@there.com>
wrote:
| Quote: |
"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:6bV9k.7172$1I.6294@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
There is NO scientifically confirmed evidence of the Noah flood. This
fairy tale has no basis in fact.
Noah and the Ark
The Bible is claimed to be the inerrant word of God
The story of Noah and the flood is only one of many ridiculous biblical
tales with no authentication or plausibility of any kind. It is an
impossible story.
1. The largest boat ever built to this day could not even come CLOSE
to housing Noah, his sons, wives and two of every type of animal on earth.
And this was a boat built of wood many thousands of years ago.
Too bad you have no education and have never researched this before.
|
As I've asked you before, Vern, and which you always avoid answering,
if *we're* the uneducated ones, why is it always *you* who looks like
a damned fool?
| Quote: |
Noah's flood or not, the size of the supposed ark has been shown feasible
over and over.
|
Sure it has, Vern. And I'm the King of Norway.
| Quote: |
Find out what a species is. DUUUHHH
|
I know what a species is, Vern. I also know approximately how many of
them live on this planet. And I also know that you'd have a hard time
fitting two of every species into freaking Rhode Island, let alone a
wooden boat roughly half the size of a modern ocean liner.
And yet fools like you still believe that ridiculous story. |
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vernono
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:32 am Post subject: Re: More scientific evidence of the flood of the BibleA new |
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"Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:OZV9k.7199$1I.1397@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
| Quote: |
"vernono" <vernono@there.com> wrote in message
news:GKV9k.7481$5y2.1544@fe113.usenetserver.com...
"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:6bV9k.7172$1I.6294@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
There is NO scientifically confirmed evidence of the Noah flood. This
fairy tale has no basis in fact.
Noah and the Ark
The Bible is claimed to be the inerrant word of God
The story of Noah and the flood is only one of many ridiculous biblical
tales with no authentication or plausibility of any kind. It is an
impossible story.
1. The largest boat ever built to this day could not even come CLOSE
to housing Noah, his sons, wives and two of every type of animal on
earth. And this was a boat built of wood many thousands of years ago.
Too bad you have no education and have never researched this before.
Noah's flood or not, the size of the supposed ark has been shown feasible
over and over.
Find out what a species is. DUUUHHH
Gee Vernon, I've researched it and find the idea of the story of Noah to
be riddled with physical impossibilities.
|
No you haven't. you have read anti- bible "stories".
Get over it. You haven't studied plain secular archeology or geology either. |
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Ken
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: More scientific evidence of the flood of the BibleA new |
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On Jun 30, 12:59 pm, "Ralph" <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Just what is 'secular' geology, as opposed to what other type of geology?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
|
Also known as "Heads Up One's Ass" geology |
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Ken
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:23 pm Post subject: Re: More scientific evidence of the flood of the Bib leA new |
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On May 31, 8:54 pm, Trolling FOOL Gabriel CCPed some more stupid
religious CRAP
Read about how the Scablands were formed in Eastern Washington.
(Notice that no phony balony religious crap is needed)
The Channeled Scablands are unique geological erosion features in the
U.S. state of Washington. They were created by the cataclysmic
Missoula Floods that swept periodically across eastern Washington and
down the Columbia River Plateau during the Pleistocene epoch.
"It was the biggest flood in the world for which there is geological
evidence," writes Norman Maclean in A River Runs Through It, referring
to the catastrophic deluge that tore through the Pacific Northwest
every time Glacial Lake Missoula's ice dam gave way. "[I]t was so vast
a geological event that the mind of man could only conceive of it but
could not prove it until photographs could be taken from Earth
satellites." Proof now in hand, geologists today point to numerous
features in the landscape that reveal the extreme scale and violence
involved in these truly colossal floods
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/megaflood/scablands.html |
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vernono
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: More scientific evidence of the flood of the BibleA new |
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"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in message
news:tggg641kcjtornlfvfsdqden2b01ss2to9@4ax.com...
| Quote: |
On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 20:32:48 -0700, "vernono" <vernono@there.com
wrote:
"Ralph" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:OZV9k.7199$1I.1397@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
"vernono" <vernono@there.com> wrote in message
news:GKV9k.7481$5y2.1544@fe113.usenetserver.com...
"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:6bV9k.7172$1I.6294@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
There is NO scientifically confirmed evidence of the Noah flood. This
fairy tale has no basis in fact.
Noah and the Ark
The Bible is claimed to be the inerrant word of God
The story of Noah and the flood is only one of many ridiculous
biblical
tales with no authentication or plausibility of any kind. It is an
impossible story.
1. The largest boat ever built to this day could not even come
CLOSE
to housing Noah, his sons, wives and two of every type of animal on
earth. And this was a boat built of wood many thousands of years ago.
Too bad you have no education and have never researched this before.
Noah's flood or not, the size of the supposed ark has been shown
feasible
over and over.
Find out what a species is. DUUUHHH
Gee Vernon, I've researched it and find the idea of the story of Noah to
be riddled with physical impossibilities.
No you haven't. you have read anti- bible "stories".
Get over it. You haven't studied plain secular archeology or geology
either.
Suppose you "educate" us then, moron.
Come on, Vern. Put your money where your big, fat, stupid mouth is.
Show us how the flood story is in any way compatible with what we know
of physics. Prove it's anything other than a Bronze Age fairy tale.
Ten bucks says you can't even begin to.
|
I already did provide several instances which could be carried on.
Study geology first.
No no, learn to read first. |
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