|
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Wombat
Guest
|
 Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: More scientific evidence of the flood of the BibleA new |
 |
|
On 2 Jul, 19:26, "vernono" <vern...@there.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Wombat" <tri...@multiweb.nl> wrote in message
news:5537edde-d91b-4b9d-8f24-286c57191328@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On 1 Jul, 22:34, "vernono" <vern...@there.com> wrote:
"Sam Buckland" <noth...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:g4due1$tic$1@registered.motzarella.org...
vernono wrote:
"Sam Buckland" <noth...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:g4dsm6$jm4$1@registered.motzarella.org...
vernono wrote:
"Snowman" <jkel...@zoomnet.net> wrote in message
news:682ae38a-770f-4c22-8d6d-1e556f504477@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
From what I've read,the word translated as "world" in the flood
account is more often used to mean "country" or "reigon".
"World" is a rather unusual translation for it.
That's a very common interpretation. Country or entire region. It
could easily be what was said.
BUT independent of any biblical connection, the entire earth has been
under water several times
Not all at once, it wasn't.
ALL AT ONCE
Nope. Never happened.
Oh, gee you better tell that to the majority of geologists.
The earth STARTED as completely covered in water.
Correction. The Earth started as a molten ball, being bombarded by
comets, asteroids and even a minor planet.
Wombat
Wrong
|
How so, one who is so ignorant.
nb there is no point in trying to be polite to this ignoramus.
Wombat |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
harry k
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:08 pm Post subject: Re: More scientific evidence of the flood of the BibleA new |
|
|
On Jul 2, 12:08 am, John Baker <nu...@bizniz.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 08:13:21 -0700 (PDT), harry k
turnkey4...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Jun 30, 10:09 pm, "vernono" <vern...@there.com> wrote:
"harry k" <turnkey4...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7367e04d-e6da-49c6-b349-7681c5618cf6@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com....
On Jun 30, 10:20 am, "vernono" <vern...@there.com> wrote:
"John Baker" <nu...@bizniz.net> wrote in message
news:0ngg64ll7cblhn768r411egrb1hu1618f0@4ax.com...
On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 17:26:22 -0700, "vernono" <vern...@there.com
wrote:
"Bill M" <wm...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:6bV9k.7172$1I.6294@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
There is NO scientifically confirmed evidence of the Noah flood. This
fairy tale has no basis in fact.
Noah and the Ark
The Bible is claimed to be the inerrant word of God
The story of Noah and the flood is only one of many ridiculous
biblical
tales with no authentication or plausibility of any kind. It is an
impossible story.
1. The largest boat ever built to this day could not even come CLOSE
to housing Noah, his sons, wives and two of every type of animal on
earth.
And this was a boat built of wood many thousands of years ago.
Too bad you have no education and have never researched this before..
As I've asked you before, Vern, and which you always avoid answering,
if *we're* the uneducated ones, why is it always *you* who looks like
a damned fool?
Noah's flood or not, the size of the supposed ark has been shown
feasible
over and over.
Sure it has, Vern. And I'm the King of Norway.
Find out what a species is. DUUUHHH
I know what a species is, Vern. I also know approximately how many of
them live on this planet. And I also know that you'd have a hard time
fitting two of every species into freaking Rhode Island, let alone a
wooden boat roughly half the size of a modern ocean liner.
And yet fools like you still believe that ridiculous story.
And you don't know basic secular geology.
he he he he he he
You have read very little if anything on the subject.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I'm willing to give it a try. How about giving us a cite for just one
"secular geology" text?
Harry K
IF you were willing OR intelligent enough to understand, you would have long
ago found many sites.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I did the same as Ken. Confused "secular" with 'creationist'.
As for your 'flood', how do you read _any_ 'secular' geology book and
not discover that there was no world wide flood?
Can you give a cite to _any- accepted geology textbook that claims
there was one?
Harry K
I'm about ready to call Loki on our ol' buddy Vern. Nobody could
actually be that stupid.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
|
Same here but as a troll, he isn't very good at it.
Harry K |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
Wombat
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:08 pm Post subject: Re: More scientific evidence of the flood of the BibleA new |
|
|
On 2 Jul, 19:52, "Ralph" <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
"vernono" <vern...@there.com> wrote in message
news:o5Aak.11099$5y2.6812@fe113.usenetserver.com...
"Free Lunch" <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
news:djil641kdau848bu58k674m587sqf4aq8p@4ax.com...
On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 17:16:32 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism
"vernono" <vern...@there.com> wrote in
zNzak.31766$aQ3....@fe085.usenetserver.com>:
"Free Lunch" <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
news:8thl64d5lnbr9tb8jld4qhn9lfok538lak@4ax.com...
On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 13:34:45 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism
"vernono" <vern...@there.com> wrote in
Exwak.62579$xd1.44...@fe087.usenetserver.com>:
"Sam Buckland" <noth...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:g4due1$tic$1@registered.motzarella.org...
vernono wrote:
"Sam Buckland" <noth...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:g4dsm6$jm4$1@registered.motzarella.org...
vernono wrote:
"Snowman" <jkel...@zoomnet.net> wrote in message
news:682ae38a-770f-4c22-8d6d-1e556f504477@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
From what I've read,the word translated as "world" in the flood
account is more often used to mean "country" or "reigon".
"World" is a rather unusual translation for it.
That's a very common interpretation. Country or entire region..
It
could easily be what was said.
BUT independent of any biblical connection, the entire earth has
been
under water several times
Not all at once, it wasn't.
ALL AT ONCE
Nope. Never happened.
Oh, gee you better tell that to the majority of geologists.
The earth STARTED as completely covered in water.
So, why don't you provide a reference to support your claim rather than
just repeat yourself?
Geology 101 at almost any University. (Maybe not bible colleges)
You know that is not a reference. Try again or we will know that you had
no idea what you were talking about and told us lies to further your
relgious doctrines.
In your total ignorance, you have not noticed that I do not agree with
most interpretations of the bible.
Your religion (atheism) blinds you to that simple little fact.
Cut the shuck and jive and show me a reference that states ''the earth
STARTED as completely covered in water." Put up or shut up.
|
That's what it says in his interpretation of what that stolen,
mistranslated holy book that he worships states as the 'truff'(TM).
You can probably ignore his protestations to the contrary as an
attempt to get more martyr points.
Wombat |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
vernono
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:24 pm Post subject: Re: More scientific evidence of the flood of the BibleA new |
|
|
"Wombat" <trigby@multiweb.nl> wrote in message
news:d1cc64e0-682e-4a97-9d6a-79ae830bf5ae@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
On 1 Jul, 20:27, "vernono" <vern...@there.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Wombat" <tri...@multiweb.nl> wrote in message
news:a344f765-f677-4721-85be-65afa294bc31@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On 1 Jul, 11:49, Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 01:19:38 -0700 (PDT), Snowman
jkel...@zoomnet.net> spake thusly:
From what I've read,the word translated as "world" in the flood
account is more often used to mean "country" or "reigon".
"World" is a rather unusual translation for it.
Not true. But rather than get into word arguments,
let me say flat out, that what you are trying to do is
to find a way to compromise with man, because they
claim that you are stupid for believing what you do
and that "science proves you wrong", when no such
thing is true and in reality, you're just too lazy to
find out. And the time when you are "stupid",
is when you take the word of those who claim that
ideas based on an atheistic world view are true
and don't do REAL RESEARCH for yourself!!!
Now like I said, I won't bother with word arguments.
I will simply ask you... If the flood was only regional,
why didn't God just tell Noah to MOVE??? Hello??? :)
So when the gospel states that Caesar Augustus sent out a decree
saying the whole world was to be taxed (Luke 2:1) he was expecting the
civilisations in South America would send in their wack?
Wombat
Cute.
Always watch for context.
|
And the context is?
DUUUHHH Caesar's world
Wombat
| Quote: |
In my dealings with Nasa astrophysics. I heard several use the terms, four
corners of the earth or four corners of the universe.
At lunch one time someone said " the other side of the moon". Other said,
"
there aint no sides."
It led to a full, fun discussion of how should we term- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text - |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
vernono
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:26 pm Post subject: Re: More scientific evidence of the flood of the BibleA new |
|
|
"Wombat" <trigby@multiweb.nl> wrote in message
news:5537edde-d91b-4b9d-8f24-286c57191328@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On 1 Jul, 22:34, "vernono" <vern...@there.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Sam Buckland" <noth...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:g4due1$tic$1@registered.motzarella.org...
vernono wrote:
"Sam Buckland" <noth...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:g4dsm6$jm4$1@registered.motzarella.org...
vernono wrote:
"Snowman" <jkel...@zoomnet.net> wrote in message
news:682ae38a-770f-4c22-8d6d-1e556f504477@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
From what I've read,the word translated as "world" in the flood
account is more often used to mean "country" or "reigon".
"World" is a rather unusual translation for it.
That's a very common interpretation. Country or entire region. It
could easily be what was said.
BUT independent of any biblical connection, the entire earth has been
under water several times
Not all at once, it wasn't.
ALL AT ONCE
Nope. Never happened.
Oh, gee you better tell that to the majority of geologists.
The earth STARTED as completely covered in water.
|
Correction. The Earth started as a molten ball, being bombarded by
comets, asteroids and even a minor planet.
Wombat
Wrong. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
vernono
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:29 pm Post subject: Re: More scientific evidence of the flood of the BibleA new |
|
|
<EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com> wrote in message
news:g4en3p$eo2$4@reader2.panix.com...
| Quote: |
In alt.religion.christian vernono <vernono@there.com> wrote:
Esk@spamblock.panix.com> wrote in message
news:g4dubu$c79$5@reader2.panix.com...
In alt.religion.christian vernono <vernono@there.com> wrote:
"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
Too bad you have no education and have never researched this before.
Noah's flood or not, the size of the supposed ark has been shown
feasible
over and over.
Only those with insufficient faith need to show that the events of the
Bible are "Feasible".
With God, all things are possible. If He wanted, He could have made
Noah
and the animals spout gills to survive the flood. He could have
miniaturized them all. He could have made it so that they need not eat
for 10 months.
Feasibility is for those who do not trust their Faith in God. There is
NO
reason for the sufficiently Faithful to "test" the feasibilty of the
inerrant word of the Lord.
Again ignorance and lies about what I even said.
I made no claim that you said anything. Instead, I accused you of having
insufficient faith.
|
Too bad you don't know what "faith" as used in the bible, means.
Not surprised.
--
| Quote: |
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
Cory Albrecht
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: More scientific evidence of the flood of the BibleA new |
|
|
vernono wrote:
| Quote: |
"Wombat" <trigby@multiweb.nl> wrote in message
news:5537edde-d91b-4b9d-8f24-286c57191328@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On 1 Jul, 22:34, "vernono" <vern...@there.com> wrote:
"Sam Buckland" <noth...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:g4due1$tic$1@registered.motzarella.org...
vernono wrote:
"Sam Buckland" <noth...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:g4dsm6$jm4$1@registered.motzarella.org...
vernono wrote:
"Snowman" <jkel...@zoomnet.net> wrote in message
news:682ae38a-770f-4c22-8d6d-1e556f504477@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
From what I've read,the word translated as "world" in the flood
account is more often used to mean "country" or "reigon".
"World" is a rather unusual translation for it.
That's a very common interpretation. Country or entire region. It
could easily be what was said.
BUT independent of any biblical connection, the entire earth has been
under water several times
Not all at once, it wasn't.
ALL AT ONCE
Nope. Never happened.
Oh, gee you better tell that to the majority of geologists.
The earth STARTED as completely covered in water.
Correction. The Earth started as a molten ball, being bombarded by
comets, asteroids and even a minor planet.
Wombat
Wrong.
|
Then where your evidence for this, Vernono? Come on, provide some cites
for once.
Hint: Merely saying "Wrong" is not a cite. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
Sam Buckland
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:48 pm Post subject: Re: More scientific evidence of the flood of the BibleA new |
|
|
Cory Albrecht wrote:
| Quote: |
vernono wrote:
"Wombat" <trigby@multiweb.nl> wrote in message
news:5537edde-d91b-4b9d-8f24-286c57191328@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On 1 Jul, 22:34, "vernono" <vern...@there.com> wrote:
"Sam Buckland" <noth...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:g4due1$tic$1@registered.motzarella.org...
vernono wrote:
"Sam Buckland" <noth...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:g4dsm6$jm4$1@registered.motzarella.org...
vernono wrote:
"Snowman" <jkel...@zoomnet.net> wrote in message
news:682ae38a-770f-4c22-8d6d-1e556f504477@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
From what I've read,the word translated as "world" in the flood
account is more often used to mean "country" or "reigon".
"World" is a rather unusual translation for it.
That's a very common interpretation. Country or entire region. It
could easily be what was said.
BUT independent of any biblical connection, the entire earth has been
under water several times
Not all at once, it wasn't.
ALL AT ONCE
Nope. Never happened.
Oh, gee you better tell that to the majority of geologists.
The earth STARTED as completely covered in water.
Correction. The Earth started as a molten ball, being bombarded by
comets, asteroids and even a minor planet.
Wombat
Wrong.
Then where your evidence for this, Vernono? Come on, provide some cites
for once.
Hint: Merely saying "Wrong" is not a cite.
|
But since it's all he HAS... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
Ralph
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:52 pm Post subject: Re: More scientific evidence of the flood of the BibleA new |
|
|
"vernono" <vernono@there.com> wrote in message
news:o5Aak.11099$5y2.6812@fe113.usenetserver.com...
| Quote: |
"Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
news:djil641kdau848bu58k674m587sqf4aq8p@4ax.com...
On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 17:16:32 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism
"vernono" <vernono@there.com> wrote in
zNzak.31766$aQ3.586@fe085.usenetserver.com>:
"Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
news:8thl64d5lnbr9tb8jld4qhn9lfok538lak@4ax.com...
On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 13:34:45 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism
"vernono" <vernono@there.com> wrote in
Exwak.62579$xd1.44741@fe087.usenetserver.com>:
"Sam Buckland" <nothing@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:g4due1$tic$1@registered.motzarella.org...
vernono wrote:
"Sam Buckland" <nothing@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:g4dsm6$jm4$1@registered.motzarella.org...
vernono wrote:
"Snowman" <jkelley@zoomnet.net> wrote in message
news:682ae38a-770f-4c22-8d6d-1e556f504477@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
From what I've read,the word translated as "world" in the flood
account is more often used to mean "country" or "reigon".
"World" is a rather unusual translation for it.
That's a very common interpretation. Country or entire region.
It
could easily be what was said.
BUT independent of any biblical connection, the entire earth has
been
under water several times
Not all at once, it wasn't.
ALL AT ONCE
Nope. Never happened.
Oh, gee you better tell that to the majority of geologists.
The earth STARTED as completely covered in water.
So, why don't you provide a reference to support your claim rather than
just repeat yourself?
Geology 101 at almost any University. (Maybe not bible colleges)
You know that is not a reference. Try again or we will know that you had
no idea what you were talking about and told us lies to further your
relgious doctrines.
In your total ignorance, you have not noticed that I do not agree with
most interpretations of the bible.
Your religion (atheism) blinds you to that simple little fact.
|
Cut the shuck and jive and show me a reference that states ''the earth
STARTED as completely covered in water." Put up or shut up. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
Robert Weldon
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:38 am Post subject: Re: More scientific evidence of the flood of the BibleA new |
|
|
"vernono" <vernono@there.com> wrote in message
news:GSOak.10247$gU2.6267@fe127.usenetserver.com...
| Quote: |
"Wombat" <trigby@multiweb.nl> wrote in message
news:5537edde-d91b-4b9d-8f24-286c57191328@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On 1 Jul, 22:34, "vernono" <vern...@there.com> wrote:
"Sam Buckland" <noth...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:g4due1$tic$1@registered.motzarella.org...
vernono wrote:
"Sam Buckland" <noth...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:g4dsm6$jm4$1@registered.motzarella.org...
vernono wrote:
"Snowman" <jkel...@zoomnet.net> wrote in message
news:682ae38a-770f-4c22-8d6d-1e556f504477@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
From what I've read,the word translated as "world" in the flood
account is more often used to mean "country" or "reigon".
"World" is a rather unusual translation for it.
That's a very common interpretation. Country or entire region. It
could easily be what was said.
BUT independent of any biblical connection, the entire earth has
been
under water several times
Not all at once, it wasn't.
ALL AT ONCE
Nope. Never happened.
Oh, gee you better tell that to the majority of geologists.
The earth STARTED as completely covered in water.
Correction. The Earth started as a molten ball, being bombarded by
comets, asteroids and even a minor planet.
Wombat
Wrong.
|
I am a geotechnical engineer, and while I am not a geologist, I did take
many geology courses. I just checked my geology textbooks, and do you care
to guess on what they say. First off, the earth was a originally a molten
mass of rock and metal, formed from comets and asteroids, and water did not
begin to form as a liquid for a very long time. Secondly, the earth was
never completely covered in water. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
Sam Buckland
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:50 am Post subject: Re: More scientific evidence of the flood of the BibleA new |
|
|
Robert Weldon wrote:
| Quote: |
"vernono" <vernono@there.com> wrote in message
news:GSOak.10247$gU2.6267@fe127.usenetserver.com...
"Wombat" <trigby@multiweb.nl> wrote in message
news:5537edde-d91b-4b9d-8f24-286c57191328@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On 1 Jul, 22:34, "vernono" <vern...@there.com> wrote:
"Sam Buckland" <noth...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:g4due1$tic$1@registered.motzarella.org...
vernono wrote:
"Sam Buckland" <noth...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:g4dsm6$jm4$1@registered.motzarella.org...
vernono wrote:
"Snowman" <jkel...@zoomnet.net> wrote in message
news:682ae38a-770f-4c22-8d6d-1e556f504477@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
From what I've read,the word translated as "world" in the flood
account is more often used to mean "country" or "reigon".
"World" is a rather unusual translation for it.
That's a very common interpretation. Country or entire region. It
could easily be what was said.
BUT independent of any biblical connection, the entire earth has
been
under water several times
Not all at once, it wasn't.
ALL AT ONCE
Nope. Never happened.
Oh, gee you better tell that to the majority of geologists.
The earth STARTED as completely covered in water.
Correction. The Earth started as a molten ball, being bombarded by
comets, asteroids and even a minor planet.
Wombat
Wrong.
I am a geotechnical engineer, and while I am not a geologist, I did take
many geology courses. I just checked my geology textbooks, and do you
care to guess on what they say. First off, the earth was a originally a
molten mass of rock and metal, formed from comets and asteroids, and
water did not begin to form as a liquid for a very long time. Secondly,
the earth was never completely covered in water.
|
Heh heh, you just earned a "plonk" from "vernono". He really
hates it when people prove he's wrong... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
Robert Weldon
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:18 am Post subject: Re: More scientific evidence of the flood of the BibleA ne w |
|
|
"James" <bireda@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:ummf641tvqi3185g7j2hjt7dseq8tfon78@4ax.com...
| Quote: |
Thus there is every reason to consider the Genesis account as being a
real occurrence. I have never seen the Bible be wrong in scientific
matters, and have no reason to doubt its record of a global flood in
the days of Noah since many of its descriptions are in harmony with
present day science.
Sincerely, James
If you wish to have a discussion with me, please use email since I do
not follow all conversations in ng threads
|
"Never seen the Bible be wrong in scientific matters" Really? So pigeon
blood can cure leprosy then?
-JW crap snipped |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
Robert Weldon
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:20 am Post subject: Re: More scientific evidence of the flood of the BibleA ne w |
|
|
"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:05fk64962t6ler804mrq9judf06sd8smkk@4ax.com...
| Quote: |
On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 15:44:05 -0400, James <bireda@peoplepc.com
wrote:
: >"Steven J." <steven_j@altavista.com
:
-crap snipped |
| Quote: |
A lot of good information. Unfortunately, those who refuse to
consider the truth of God will just dismiss it, holding onto
their claim there's no evidence for God, or the things God said
He did.
|
A lot of incorrect information, you mean. If the vapour canopy existed, the
Earth surface would be more like Venus. And in case you don't think that
through, that means no life on Earth. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
