Science Talk

Robert Clark · Guest

In recent news releases, Mars rover scientist Andrew Knoll stated
Mars may have been to salty for life:

Was Mars too salty for life?
Posted: Friday, February 15, 2008 3:54 PM by Alan Boyle
http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/02/15/668749.aspx

Knoll stated only a handful of Earth organisms could survive in the
salty conditions they found prevailed at the Meridiani landing site.
He doesn't say which types of organisms he is referring to but is
notable that certain types of fungi can also survive in high levels of
salinity, and at below freezing temperatures. This is interesting
because fungi have a nucleus, unlike simple bacteria, and are
therefore considered to be a more advanced life form than bacteria. In
fact they are sometimes regarded by biologists as being more closely
related to animals than to plant-life.

Life Sci Space Res. 1979;17:95-8.
Growth of fungi in NaCl-MgSO4 brines.
Siegel SM, Siegel BZ.
Department of Botany and Pacific Biomedical Research Center,
University of Hawaii, Honolulu, Hawaii 96822, USA.
"Long-term studies have shown that common fungi of the Penicillium-
Aspergillus group can be grown in a variety of brines or on moist salt
crystals, simulating a range of natural terrestrial habitats such as
salt flats, or special water-bodies such as the Dead Sea. In general,
salt media rich in KCl are favored over other alkali halides; the
media become more selective as the salt concentration rises and
nutrient requirements become more complex. We here demonstrate that
media which resemble the Dead Sea salt mix can support the growth of
selected fungal strains, even in the absence of reduced organic
nutrients other than glucose. Such media may serve as models for
localized microhabitats on Mars."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12296355

Life Sci Space Res. 1976;14:351-4.
Performance of fungi in low temperature and hypersaline environments.
Siegel SM, Speitel TW.
Department of Botany, University of Hawaii, Honolulu, Hawaii, USA.
"During the past ten years we have observed a broad array of stress
capabilities in common fungi including ability to grow in aqueous
ammonia and other alkaline solutions, in acids, in the presence of
heavy metals, and in various salt media at low temperature. This
report is concerned primarily with (a) the performance of
Aspergillaceae in a variety of saturated salts, (b) distinctive roles
for K+ and Rb+ ions, and (c) the lowest temperatures at which growth
in nutrient brines has been observed, namely 267 degrees K in as
little as 14 days. We also describe a novel solid medium based upon
gelatin, glycerol and water in which fungal cultures growing at 248
degrees K can be directly examined under oil-immersion magnification.
The performance capabilities of the fungi show that tolerance or
adaptability to harsh and extreme physical-chemical environments
cannot be considered a unique feature of prokaryotic life forms. Salt
flats, brine pools and other natural hypersaline environments have
long been recognized as real ecological niches harboring a range of
biota from pseudomonad bacteria and green algae to specialized
crustaceans. A notable omission in this ecological record is the
fungi, although the group is known to include marine forms."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12678120

Bob Clark

Guest

On Mar 9, 10:30 am, Robert Clark <rgregorycl...@yahoo.com> wrote:

tadchem · Guest

On Mar 9, 10:30 am, Robert Clark <rgregorycl...@yahoo.com> wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremophile

Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA

Sam Wormley · Guest

sdtesterman@gmail.com wrote:

Uncle Al · Guest

Robert Clark wrote:

Guest

In sci.physics Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote:

David Williams · Guest

-> Have they found any signs of life at all on Mars yet?

Only a few artifacts that we humans have sent there.

dow

Henry · Guest

I truly enjoyed that. Thanks

"> This is pretty interesting
> http://edu-observatory.org/cfs/VOD.070405/rover.armspin.mov

Robert Clark · Guest

On Mar 9, 5:09 pm, sdtester...@gmail.com wrote:

Robert Clark · Guest

Further refs on life surviving at or nearly at saturation levels of
salts:

Brine organisms and the question of habitat-specific adaptation.
Origins of Life and Evolution of Biospheres.
Volume 14, Numbers 1-4 / December, 1984
"Abstract Among the well-known ultrasaline terrestrial habitats, the
Dead Sea in the Jordan Rift Valley and Don Juan Pond in the Upper
Wright Valley represent two of the most extreme. The former is a
saturated sodium chloride-magnesium sulfate brine in a hot desert, the
latter a saturated calcium chloride brine in an Antarctic desert. Both
Dead Sea and Don Juan water bodies themselves are limited in
microflora, but the saline Don Juan algal mat and muds contain
abundant nutrients and a rich and varied microbiota,
includingOscillatoria,Gleocapsa,Chlorella, diatoms,Penicillium and
bacteria.
In such environments, the existence of an array of specific
adaptations is a common, and highly reasonable, presumption, at least
with respect to habitat-obligate forms. Nevertheless, many years of
ongoing study in our laboratory have demonstrated that lichens
(e.g.Cladonia), algae (e.g.Nostoc) and fungi
(e.g.Penicillium,Aspergillus) from the humid tropics can sustain
metabolism down to -40°C and growth down to -10°C in simulated Dead
Sea or Don Juan (or similar) media without benefit of selection or
gradual acclimation. Non-selection is suggested in fungi by higher
growth rates from vegetative inocula than spores. The importance of
nutrient parameters was also evident in responses to potassium and
reduced nitrogen compounds.
In view of the saline performance of tropicalNostoc, and its presence
in the Antarctic dry valley soils, its complete absence in our Don
Juan mat samples was and remains a puzzle.
We suggest that adaptive capability is already resident in many
terrestrial life forms not currently in extreme habitats, a possible
reflection of evolutionary selection for wide spectrum environmental
adaptability."
http://www.springerlink.com/content/r0565304t64835nv/

Reports
The Enigma of Prokaryotic Life in Deep Hypersaline Anoxic Basins.
"Evidence that microbial life is possible at 5 M MgCl2 widens the
picture of microbial adaptation to salinity. It has been suggested
that primordial life on earth started in hyper-saline water (28, 29);
furthermore, extra-terrestrial objects are known to contain brines
exposed to evaporation, which results in an increase of divalent
cations (30, 31). Our results indicate that microbial metabolism can
proceed at significant levels in some of the most extreme terrestrial
hyper-saline environments and lend further support to the possibility
of extraterrestrial life."
Science 7 January 2005: Vol. 307. no. 5706, pp. 121 - 123.
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/307/5706/121

Interestingly, the first says fungi might survive in brines at the
maximum temperature range that might appear at the Mars Phoenix
landing site. Of course, the temperatures would fall to lower than
this during the polar night and Winter. But perhaps they could go into
suspended spore-like form then.
And the second gives references that argue life might have originated
in hypersaline environments, in contrast to the Knoll view that it
could not have started there.

Bob Clark

r norman · Guest

On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 07:30:08 -0700 (PDT), Robert Clark
<rgregoryclark@yahoo.com> wrote:

BradGuth · Guest

Isn't infomercial spewed science wonderful. One published conjecture
or SWAG now has Mars as too salty, except there's no actual signs of
all that supposed salt, other than various mineral salts that have
nothing to do with remains of common sea-salt or of surface rock-salt
deposits as found here on earth.

As best we can tell, Mars was a once-upon-a-time fresh water swamp
like environment, as sustained primarily from its geothermal core
energy and otherwise not by way of the relatively poor solar influx of
its past. Little of anything greater than slime molds or fungi ever
existed without having been ET imported or perhaps panspermia derived.

BTW, without a viable magnetosphere and insufficient atmosphere, that
Mars fungi (imported or local) had best be of a rad-hard species, as
well as tough spore like antifreeze rated, as each and every nighttime
the near vacuum of that pathetic environment sucks the life out of
most anything. Even the best of robotics are going to be hard pressed
to function within those crystal dry-ice nighttimes.
.. - Brad Guth

Robert Clark wrote:

BradGuth · Guest

On Mar 9, 6:21 pm, david.willi...@bayman.org (David Williams) wrote:

Darwin123 · Guest

On Mar 9, 10:30 am, Robert Clark <rgregorycl...@yahoo.com> wrote: