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Obama2008
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 Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:09 am Post subject: Hillary Clinton: Every Nation Must Be With Us Or Against Us- |
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Hillary Clinton: Every Nation Must Be With Us Or Against Us
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbYGYiGjpUs |
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Mani Deli
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:05 am Post subject: Why should fascists like Denis pay for vets healthcare, or a |
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Why should fascists like Denis pay for vets healthcare, or anybody for
that matter.
Although many Americans believe that the nation's veterans have
ready access to health care, that is far from the case. A new study by
researchers at the Harvard Medical School has found that millions of
veterans and their dependents have no access to care in veterans'
hospitals and clinics and no health insurance to pay for care
elsewhere. Their plight represents yet another failure of our
disjointed health care system to provide coverage for all Americans.
The new study, published in the American Journal of Public Health,
estimated that in 2004 nearly 1.8 million veterans were uninsured and
unable to get care in veterans' facilities. An additional 3.8 million
members of their households faced the same predicament. All told, this
group made up roughly 12 percent of the huge population of uninsured
Americans. |
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mike3
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton: Every Nation Must Be With Us Or Against |
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On Nov 10, 12:09 pm, Obama2008 <votediffer...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Obama considering *unilateral* missile strikes on Iran:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/printedition/chi-0409250111sep25,1,4555304.story
War in Pakistan?:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/08/sparks-fly-over.html
No timetable mentioned for how long it'll go on. How do we
know it's not going to be another never-ending slog like
Iraq???
It looks like the real cause of the Empire may not be from
Bush, but that Bush, Obama, Clinton, CHENEY, are all just
a front for the true cause of the empire: big money, big
business, big greed. |
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ray
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: Why should fascists like Denis pay for vets healthcare, |
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In article <8mocj3tnc1bp09uvms2k3lpimgmb0ddk17@4ax.com>,
Mani Deli <mani@sympatico.ca> wrote:
| Quote: |
Why should fascists like Denis pay for vets healthcare, or anybody for
that matter.
Although many Americans believe that the nation's veterans have
ready access to health care, that is far from the case. A new study by
researchers at the Harvard Medical School has found that millions of
veterans and their dependents have no access to care in veterans'
hospitals and clinics and no health insurance to pay for care
elsewhere. Their plight represents yet another failure of our
disjointed health care system to provide coverage for all Americans.
The new study, published in the American Journal of Public Health,
estimated that in 2004 nearly 1.8 million veterans were uninsured and
unable to get care in veterans' facilities. An additional 3.8 million
members of their households faced the same predicament. All told, this
group made up roughly 12 percent of the huge population of uninsured
Americans.
|
Agree and disagree.
We should take better care of our veterans. They offered their life for
the security of ours, and they actually are crapped upon.
But this is no reason to introduce socialized healthcare. That is
totally a separate issue.
--
--Conservatives deal with facts, liberals deal with emotion-- |
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ray
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton: Every Nation Must Be With Us Or Against |
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In article <1194756086.393799.71290@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
mike3 <mike4ty4@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Nov 10, 12:09 pm, Obama2008 <votediffer...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hillary Clinton: Every Nation Must Be With Us Or Against Us
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbYGYiGjpUs
Obama considering *unilateral* missile strikes on Iran:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/printedition/chi-0409250111sep25,1,4555304.
story
War in Pakistan?:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/08/sparks-fly-over.html
No timetable mentioned for how long it'll go on. How do we
know it's not going to be another never-ending slog like
Iraq???
It looks like the real cause of the Empire may not be from
Bush, but that Bush, Obama, Clinton, CHENEY, are all just
a front for the true cause of the empire: big money, big
business, big greed.
|
Or perhaps they know something you don't, and may not want to know.
--
--Conservatives deal with facts, liberals deal with emotion-- |
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kT
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:05 pm Post subject: Re: Why should fascists like Denis pay for vets healthcare, |
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ray wrote:
| Quote: |
We should take better care of our veterans. They offered their life for
the security of ours, and they actually are crapped upon.
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And pray tell, what securities did Vietnam and Iraqi vets afford US? |
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kT
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:00 am Post subject: Fuck The Troops |
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ray wrote:
| Quote: |
In article <VKFZi.28$G%5.21@newsfe06.lga>, kT <cosmic@lifeform.org
wrote:
ray wrote:
We should take better care of our veterans. They offered their life for
the security of ours, and they actually are crapped upon.
And pray tell, what securities did Vietnam and Iraqi vets afford US?
For one, there are two Vietnam's aren't there? And drawing the
terrorists to a place like Iraq is just what we needed.
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Great, I hope more US soldiers get killed today tomorrow, all next week,
and all next year too. Less soldiers is good.
May they all die horrible deaths, brains splattered, limbs torn asunder,
disemboweled and burnt. Have a nice and happy Veterans Day everybody!
This has been a test of the constitutional system. Do not be alarmed,
this is only a test. Had this been an actual constitutional emergency,
you would not be reading this usenet message :
Analysis of these seven regimes reveals fourteen common threads that
link them in recognizable patterns of national behavior and abuse of
power. These basic characteristics are more prevalent and intense in
some regimes than in others, but they all share at least some level of
similarity.
1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. From the
prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins,
the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime
itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious.
Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common
themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a
suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.
2. Disdain for the importance of human rights. The regimes themselves
viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the
objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the
population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by
marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was
egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.
3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. The most
significant common thread among these regimes was the use of
scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other
problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in
controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and
disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite
“spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists,
socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional
national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals,
and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably
labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.
4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism. Ruling elites always
identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure
that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was
allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The
military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever
possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and
increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.
5. Rampant sexism. Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and
the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably
viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion
and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian
laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the
country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.
6. A controlled mass media. Under some of the regimes, the mass media
were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray
from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure
media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to
resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied
threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible
with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the
general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.
7. Obsession with national security. Inevitably, a national security
apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually
an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any
constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting
“national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as
unpatriotic or even treasonous.
8. Religion and ruling elite tied together. Unlike communist regimes,
the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by
their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the
predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as
militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s
behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was
generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the
ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the
“godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite
was tantamount to an attack on religion.
9. Power of corporations protected. Although the personal life of
ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large
corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The
ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure
military production (in developed states), but also as an additional
means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often
pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of
interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.
10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated. Since organized labor was
seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony
of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed
or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion
or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin
to a vice.
11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts. Intellectuals
and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them
were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were
considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal.
Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty
harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were
strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and
literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.
12. Obsession with crime and punishment. Most of these regimes
maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison
populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked
power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often
merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against
political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or
“traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more
police power.
13. Rampant cronyism and corruption. Those in business circles and close
to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This
corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial
gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the
benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a
position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example,
by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus
under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely
unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.
14. Fraudulent elections. Elections in the form of plebiscites or public
opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates
were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the
desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the
election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters,
destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to
a judiciary beholden to the power elite.
Does any of this ring alarm bells? Of course not. After all, this is
America, officially a democracy with the rule of law, a constitution, a
free press, honest elections, and a well-informed public constantly
being put on guard against evils. Historical comparisons like these are
just exercises in verbal gymnastics. Maybe, maybe not. |
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Bert Hyman
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:06 am Post subject: Re: Fuck The Troops |
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In news:dbJZi.47$G%5.1@newsfe06.lga kT <cosmic@lifeform.org> wrote:
| Quote: |
May they all die horrible deaths, brains splattered, limbs torn
asunder, disemboweled and burnt.
|
Wishing the same for you and yours in the coming holiday season.
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@iphouse.com |
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kT
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:24 am Post subject: Re: Fuck The Troops |
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Bert Hyman wrote:
| Quote: |
In news:dbJZi.47$G%5.1@newsfe06.lga kT <cosmic@lifeform.org> wrote:
May they all die horrible deaths, brains splattered, limbs torn
asunder, disemboweled and burnt.
Wishing the same for you and yours in the coming holiday season.
|
I am not a professional soldier working for a corrupt fascist regime.
You will be defeated in the next election. |
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Thom
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:52 am Post subject: Re: Fuck The Troops |
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"kT" <cosmic@lifeform.org> wrote in message
news:mxJZi.154$m_2.28@newsfe02.lga...
| Quote: |
Bert Hyman wrote:
In news:dbJZi.47$G%5.1@newsfe06.lga kT <cosmic@lifeform.org> wrote:
May they all die horrible deaths, brains splattered, limbs torn
asunder, disemboweled and burnt.
Wishing the same for you and yours in the coming holiday season.
I am not a professional soldier working for a corrupt fascist regime.
You will be defeated in the next election.
|
kt, a lot of those soldiers were in the system before bush. they are
innocent. a noble profession abused. |
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kT
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:01 am Post subject: Re: Fuck The Troops |
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Thom wrote:
| Quote: |
"kT" <cosmic@lifeform.org> wrote in message
news:mxJZi.154$m_2.28@newsfe02.lga...
Bert Hyman wrote:
In news:dbJZi.47$G%5.1@newsfe06.lga kT <cosmic@lifeform.org> wrote:
May they all die horrible deaths, brains splattered, limbs torn
asunder, disemboweled and burnt.
Wishing the same for you and yours in the coming holiday season.
I am not a professional soldier working for a corrupt fascist regime.
You will be defeated in the next election.
kt, a lot of those soldiers were in the system before bush. they are
innocent. a noble profession abused.
|
If they had any brains at all, they would quit and walk, before they
lose the little brain material they still have left. Darwin works in
mysterious ways, and these people are finding it out the hard way.
It's that easy. Quit and walk. Live to fight the real fascists in a
different place, on a different day. Just because they lost this battle,
doesn't mean they'll lose the war. Fascists have always been defeated,
and they always will. They're obviously fighting the wrong battle there.
You know this thing is going to drag on until January 20, 2009, and if
Al Gore wimps out again, there is a good chance it will be permanent.
Dead people don't vote. Fascists will use that to their advantage. |
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alohacyberian
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:16 am Post subject: Re: Why should fascists like Denis pay for vets healthcare, |
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On Nov 13, 12:59 am, ray <xxxray...@aol.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
In article <VKFZi.28$G%5...@newsfe06.lga>, kT <cos...@lifeform.org
wrote:
ray wrote:
We should take better care of our veterans. They offered their life for
the security of ours, and they actually are crapped upon.
And pray tell, what securities did Vietnam and Iraqi vets afford US?
For one, there are two Vietnam's aren't there? And drawing the
terrorists to a place like Iraq is just what we needed.
--
--Conservatives deal with facts, liberals deal with emotion--
|
Just what we needed? I'm sure the Iraqi'a appreciate your thoughts
that their lives are meaningless.
Saudi Arabia attacked the US. No Iraq. Cretins really make me puke. |
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alohacyberian
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:18 am Post subject: Re: Fuck The Troops |
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On Nov 12, 3:06 am, Bert Hyman <b...@iphouse.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Innews:dbJZi.47$G%5.1@newsfe06.lgakT <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote:
May they all die horrible deaths, brains splattered, limbs torn
asunder, disemboweled and burnt.
Wishing the same for you and yours in the coming holiday season.
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN b...@iphouse.com
|
It's your holiday, baby, I hope your fat ass get's stuck in the
chimney and they don't find you until they smell your rancid ass. |
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alohacyberian
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:20 am Post subject: Re: Fuck The Troops |
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On Nov 12, 5:01 am, kT <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote:
| Quote: |
Thom wrote:
"kT" <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote in message
news:mxJZi.154$m_2.28@newsfe02.lga...
Bert Hyman wrote:
Innews:dbJZi.47$G%5.1@newsfe06.lgakT <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote:
May they all die horrible deaths, brains splattered, limbs torn
asunder, disemboweled and burnt.
Wishing the same for you and yours in the coming holiday season.
I am not a professional soldier working for a corrupt fascist regime.
You will be defeated in the next election.
kt, a lot of those soldiers were in the system before bush. they are
innocent. a noble profession abused.
If they had any brains at all, they would quit and walk, before they
lose the little brain material they still have left. Darwin works in
mysterious ways, and these people are finding it out the hard way.
It's that easy. Quit and walk. Live to fight the real fascists in a
different place, on a different day. Just because they lost this battle,
doesn't mean they'll lose the war. Fascists have always been defeated,
and they always will. They're obviously fighting the wrong battle there.
You know this thing is going to drag on until January 20, 2009, and if
Al Gore wimps out again, there is a good chance it will be permanent.
Dead people don't vote. Fascists will use that to their advantage.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
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now that is wisdom! |
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kT
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:01 am Post subject: Re: Why should fascists like Denis pay for vets healthcare, |
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ray wrote:
| Quote: |
Saudi Arabia attacked the US. No Iraq. Cretins really make me puke.
Saudi Arabia attacked nobody, and Iraq didn't attack anybody either.
But the truth of the matter is, we can't sit here in America and wait
for other terrorists attacks. We have to go to the middle east where
the terrorists are. Otherwise, they will come here.
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Yes, it's too bad you have the fight the fascists over there, because
you didn't take the time to fight the fascists right here. |
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