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Average Joe
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 Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 9:42 am Post subject: questions for determinists |
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detewminism says dat aww of weawity we expewience is bwought about by
pwiow causes and dat dewe is no such ding as fwee wiww ow Gods dat
can intewvene in de detewmined system
http://en, uh-hah-hah-hah. wikipedia.owg/wiki/Detewminism
http://en, uh-hah-hah-hah. wikipedia.owg/wiki/Fwee_wiww
but in such a detewmined system, dese pwiow causes need to be accounted
fow
whewe do you suggest dat such pwiow causes come fwom?
befowe you suggest a wandom qwantum event, wouwdn't de intwoduction of
wandom events make an indetewminate system and not a detewmined system
do you have *ANY* expwanation as to pwiow causes dat fuwfiww a
detewmined system?
--
Dawe
http://www.vedantasite.owg |
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John Wilkins
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 9:54 am Post subject: Re: questions for determinists |
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Average Joe <averagejoe@vedantasite.org> wrote:
| Quote: |
detewminism says dat aww of weawity we expewience is bwought about by
pwiow causes and dat dewe is no such ding as fwee wiww ow Gods dat
can intewvene in de detewmined system
http://en, uh-hah-hah-hah. wikipedia.owg/wiki/Detewminism
http://en, uh-hah-hah-hah. wikipedia.owg/wiki/Fwee_wiww
but in such a detewmined system, dese pwiow causes need to be accounted
fow
whewe do you suggest dat such pwiow causes come fwom?
befowe you suggest a wandom qwantum event, wouwdn't de intwoduction of
wandom events make an indetewminate system and not a detewmined system
do you have *ANY* expwanation as to pwiow causes dat fuwfiww a
detewmined system?
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Chuckle...
I'm reminded of the Impressive Churchman from The Princess Bride:
"Mawwiage..."
--
John S. Wilkins, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, Biohumanities Project
University of Queensland - Blog: scienceblogs.com/evolvingthoughts
"He used... sarcasm. He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor,
bathos, puns, parody, litotes and... satire. He was vicious." |
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SJAB1958
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 10:32 am Post subject: Re: questions for determinists |
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On 22 May, 05:42, Average Joe <average...@vedantasite.org> wrote:
| Quote: |
detewminism says dat aww of weawity we expewience is bwought about by
pwiow causes and dat dewe is no such ding as fwee wiww ow Gods dat
can intewvene in de detewmined systemhttp://en, uh-hah-hah-hah. wikipedia.owg/wiki/Detewminismhttp://en, uh-hah-hah-hah. wikipedia.owg/wiki/Fwee_wiww
but in such a detewmined system, dese pwiow causes need to be accounted
fow
whewe do you suggest dat such pwiow causes come fwom?
befowe you suggest a wandom qwantum event, wouwdn't de intwoduction of
wandom events make an indetewminate system and not a detewmined system
but havent you noticed that random events can create a non-random |
result?
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Tachyglossus
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 10:52 am Post subject: Re: questions for determinists |
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"Average Joe" <averagejoe@vedantasite.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.05.22.04.45.50@vedantasite.org...
| Quote: |
detewminism says dat aww of weawity we expewience is bwought about by
pwiow causes and dat dewe is no such ding as fwee wiww ow Gods dat
can intewvene in de detewmined system
http://en, uh-hah-hah-hah. wikipedia.owg/wiki/Detewminism
http://en, uh-hah-hah-hah. wikipedia.owg/wiki/Fwee_wiww
but in such a detewmined system, dese pwiow causes need to be accounted
fow
whewe do you suggest dat such pwiow causes come fwom?
befowe you suggest a wandom qwantum event, wouwdn't de intwoduction of
wandom events make an indetewminate system and not a detewmined system
do you have *ANY* expwanation as to pwiow causes dat fuwfiww a
detewmined system?
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*BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA*.....!!!
T. |
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Comrade
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 11:00 am Post subject: Re: questions for determinists |
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On Mon, 21 May 2007 22:32:14 -0700, SJAB1958 wrote:
| Quote: |
but havent you noticed that random events can create a non-random
result?
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a random event would be an intervention into the closed system
--
Dale
http://www.vedantasite.org
see my website for my real email address |
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Ross Langerak
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 11:00 am Post subject: Re: questions for determinists |
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"Average Joe" <averagejoe@vedantasite.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.05.22.04.45.50@vedantasite.org...
| Quote: |
detewminism says dat aww of weawity we expewience is bwought about by
pwiow causes and dat dewe is no such ding as fwee wiww ow Gods dat
can intewvene in de detewmined system
http://en, uh-hah-hah-hah. wikipedia.owg/wiki/Detewminism
http://en, uh-hah-hah-hah. wikipedia.owg/wiki/Fwee_wiww
but in such a detewmined system, dese pwiow causes need to be accounted
fow
whewe do you suggest dat such pwiow causes come fwom?
befowe you suggest a wandom qwantum event, wouwdn't de intwoduction of
wandom events make an indetewminate system and not a detewmined system
do you have *ANY* expwanation as to pwiow causes dat fuwfiww a
detewmined system?
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Stiww wwong. |
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Bill Morse
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 8:18 am Post subject: Re: questions for determinists |
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Rolf wrote:
| Quote: |
"Don Stockbauer" <don.stockbauer@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1179855852.816700.181460@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On May 22, 6:04 am, "THE BORG" <b...@homeworld.space> wrote:
"Don Stockbauer" <don.stockba...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1179835052.664634.225750@b40g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
HHFW.
(Humans have free will.)
Humans may have free will - but it is also possible to know humans so
well
that you can know well in advance what they are going to do - say - or
think.
You may put something in front of a human - say a really interesting
book -
and the human may be interested - pick it up - buy it - read it or they
may
not. This is free will. But if you know this human very well - you
would
know whether he will pick up the book and buy and read or not.
Thus the future is known.
Hi, Borg, hope you are doing well, I miss our dialectic.
Humans may be very predictable but not absolutely so. You put the
book in front of someone and they may pick it up and throw it in the
fireplace. And there's a much bigger source of indeterminacy -
emergent phenomena. When systems combine into a metasystem emergent
phenomena arise which cannot be predicted beforehand.
So some things are out of your control, but many things are in your
control. It's cybernetics, control and being controlled. So you have
at least some sayso over your future. Determinism means that you have
none.
Hm. By whom, what, or how is 'your future' determined?
I see only two possibilities, either it is not determined, i.e. it is
random, unpredictable - can be just anything, for no discernible reason at
all, or it is determined - by a number of factors, not all of which are
easily detectable or definable.
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You might like to learn more about chaos theory - James Gleick's _Chaos_ is
very readable. What chaos theory tells us is that there are processes that
are determined but unpredictable. The more controversial complexity theory
argues that there are behaviors that appear at certain levels of complexity
that are indeterminable from the properties of their components. In any
case the situation is not as simple as your outline above suggests.
--
Yours, Bill Morse |
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Perplexed in Peoria
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 8:56 am Post subject: Re: questions for determinists |
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"THE BORG" <borg@homeworld.space> wrote in message news:c%A4i.1062$I55.1020@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
| Quote: |
"Don Stockbauer" <don.stockbauer@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1179835052.664634.225750@b40g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
HHFW.
(Humans have free will.)
Humans may have free will - but it is also possible to know humans so well
that you can know well in advance what they are going to do - say - or
think.
You may put something in front of a human - say a really interesting book -
and the human may be interested - pick it up - buy it - read it or they may
not. This is free will. But if you know this human very well - you would
know whether he will pick up the book and buy and read or not.
Thus the future is known.
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I'm not so sure. There are some situations (a scene involving Wallace Shawn
in "The Princess Bride" comes to mind) in which it is to a person's advantage
to be unpredictable. So, for these situations, it is not to our advantage
to let anyone know us well enough to predict our responses. Whether these
kinds of situations have come up often enough so that natural selection has
given us 'genes for unpredictability', I don't know. But I do suspect that
in an evolutionary 'arms race' between ability to predict and ability to
be unpredictable, unpredictability wins. It is easier to produce. |
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The Merry Prankster Pope
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 9:19 am Post subject: Re: questions for determinists |
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ML wrote:
| Quote: |
On May 24, 5:51 pm, Sean Carroll <seanc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Don Stockbauer wrote:
3. How do you determine if someone is a determinist or not?
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They are constantly pissing around doing non-essential stuff just
because it's there to be done. If you try to get them to cool it and
relax and thnk about structured needs that are important priorities
awaiting completion
they tell you to stop whinningand bitching and let them take care of
it all as best their temper, time and motavational coaching and tey go
for it harder and refuse to stop until it's all done
as they see it fit to do and it's all done to their satisfaction and
so on and so 4th,
| Quote: |
You calculate their determinant.
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Sure if you have a determinant calculator.
| Quote: |
4. Is the opposite of a deteminist a terminist?
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Sort of - they are better discribed as wind waiting to be told to blow
with a wishy washy mode concerning everything and everybody
everywhere.
| Quote: |
No, it's an antidisestablishmenterminist.
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I disagree with that - that is a demolitionist
with deep seeded desires to study totally the
art of tearing something and/or somebody into
small hopeless sections that are useless to
each other in most every way. (You know watching
this monitor screen makes me so high I nod out a lot)
| Quote: |
5. Why are you a determinist when anyone with any intelligence at all
can see that we all have free will?
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Free will is structured according to the one who generates it.
| Quote: |
If you love free will so much, you should be happy that determinists
choose, of their own free will (as you obviously think they do, though
they may disagree), to believe differently from you.
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But, that's all OK
and completely proper because that's what their free will desires and
permits.
| Quote: |
--
--Sean
YEAH. I can't accept it, but I can ignore it, like fingers in the
ears while launching into "I Did It My Way".......
Cameron: We knew if it was myelitis there had to be an -itis. This must
be the infection that set it off.
House: Yeah. Except, in this universe, effect *follows* cause. I've
complained about it, but...
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Now if I could get 100% varification that she was clean
then I wouldn't have to give her a good bath/shower/scrubbing. It's
been proven that launching myelitis can result in mental loop
determination
and if not closely monitored can cause yeast infections at random on
any skin surface - causing the need for anti-yeast cream, lotion and
spray.
A douche and/or high colonic enema using Salt water and Grapefruit
seed extract
not only often causes cancer remission nut can add years of life to
the user,
but can create a loving relationship between the host and the user to
the point
of certified addiction. |
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